Propagandaministerium Uniform

[stonemint]

One of the rarest TR visors is the visor for the Propagandaministerium.
There are many fakes of this visor, but I have yet to see a real one to date (and probably never will).

They wore a Form 3 style PL visor, but with a gray body and a gray velvet band.


This is the only photo I am aware of that depicts one of these uniforms in wear.
(It is from one of the Bender books, I just cannot recall which).

If anyone has any other photos of one of these visors/uniforms in wear, please feel free to post in this thread.

[stonemint]

Description of the hat from the old Nimmergut book.
If anyone has any regs or references to this uniform, please post, thanks.

[Br. James]

There seems to be some confusion as to the uniform worn by the Propaganda Ministry. One would suppose that the uniform worn by Hans Fritzsche would be indicative of what regular members of the Propaganda Ministry wore, and I note on photo page XL in "The Trial of the Germans: Nuremberg 1945-1946" by Eugene Davidson (published in 1966) that Fritzsche is shown wearing what appears to be a Government Officials uniform, though he was not wearing a cap in that photo. I believe Government Officials' uniforms were gray. The photo shown by stonemint below appears to be different than the standard GO issue.

As Reichsminister in the Propaganda Ministry, Goebbels never appeared in any uniform other than his own version of the PL uniform to my knowledge, so it is not possible to take any direction from his wardrobe.

Very interesting!

Br. James

[stonemint]

Br, this uniform was (apparently) only for RVMP correspondents/photographers, but I unfortunately have no other info--one of the more mysterious NSDAP uniforms ever.


I would assume that, with the 1939 regulations, they switched to the Form 4 PL insignia on their visors, but who knows....

[Br. James]

Thanks for the clarification, stonemint, and I agree that any uniform worn solely by the RMVP would be quite rare and unusual. It does make sense that the Government Officials uniform would have been used by the Propaganda Ministry, since that body operated as part of the TR Government... And in the end, as you said: "who knows?!"

Cheers, my friend,

Br. James

[Mark Costa]

FYI -- Goebbels did wear a Gov't officials uniform once during a state visit to Poland in 1941. He wore a gray double breasted uniform with a state eagle on the left shoulder. He never wore it again as far as I am aware.


I have at least two photos of the RMVP visors that are in private collections. I can not post here, but if you send me your email address I will send them to you.

Mark Costa

[wilhelm Saris]

Thanks for the clarification, stonemint, and I agree that any uniform worn solely by the RMVP would be quite rare and unusual. It does make sense that the Government Officials uniform would have been used by the Propaganda Ministry, since that body operated as part of the TR Government... And in the end, as you said: "who knows?!" Cheers, my friend, Br. James

In my opinion they did wear the same uniform which was officially authorized by the Reichsministerium für Volksaufklärung und Propaganda, to be worn by those phrased as Bildberichterstatter.
They also did wear a specific grey dress (uniform) with a grey visored cap with a grey velvet cap band as those from the Propagandaministerium. The uniform was introduced in about summer (August) 1938,
but was actually worn since May 1938 with the visit to Italy.
The uniform for Bildberichterstatter is not mysterious. Remarkable is the worn armband with oval disc as authorized for them. When not in service the armband was not worn.

The guy with the photo from post 1 is wearing the insignia for the Reichskulturkammer. This was also worn by Bildberichterstatter. The insignia is embroidered.
I do own uniform-drawings, as well as two photos of such guys.

[stonemint]

FYI -- Goebbels did wear a Gov't officials uniform once during a state visit to Poland in 1941. He wore a gray double breasted uniform with a state eagle on the left shoulder. He never wore it again as far as I am aware.


I have at least two photos of the RMVP visors that are in private collections. I can not post here, but if you send me your email address I will send them to you.

Mark Costa

Mark--I assume it is one of these?:

[wilhelm Saris]

Mark--I assume it is one of these?:

That's the one, I suppose. It is the same one as for Bildberichterstatter.

[Br. James]

Many thanks to Mark Costa, Wim Saris and stonemint for illuminating this interesting -- and obscure -- subject! One further matter which I wonder about is how rank was displayed on these uniforms? Mark, in his State Visit to Poland, did Goebbels' uniform include the badge of rank normally seen on Government Officials' left lower sleeves, or did he not indicate any rank with that uniform, as was his tradition with his PL uniform? And if he did wear a rank badge with that uniform, what did it indicate?

Thanks again, friends,

Br. James

[stonemint]

I would presume that the primary reason for the scarcity of photos of these guys is the fact that they were the ones taking photos (and not having taken photos of them).
Wim, are you able to post your photos/drawings here?

[Mark Costa]

Br James:

On the state visit to Poland, Goebbels only wore his GPB. No other insignia can be seen except for the National Eagle on the upper left sleeve shoulder. He wore the standard 1939 style reichsleiter PL visor hat, which must have looked strange with a gray uniform. Send me your email on PM and I will send you a couple of photos of him.

Stonemint:

That is not one of the visor photos I have. The three photos I have are similar but different. One is of an enlisted man visor -- the other two are officer styles to include pre 1939 and post 1939 styles.

Mark

[wilhelm Saris]

I would presume that the primary reason for the scarcity of photos of these guys is the fact that they were the ones taking photos (and not having taken photos of them).
Wim, are you able to post your photos/drawings here?

Hello stonemint,

no, I cannot show images here at this forum. I will consider to scan them and send them to you, so you can take care for that. There is one restriction: make a thread at the WRF and you will get it.

I have never found a sort of ranking system, so there is no talk about enlisted persons (or it should be those I mention at the end of this post). The arm-disc is their sign of recognition. The uniforms were only allowed to be manufactured by those with an RZM permission. Most interesting in the description for the uniform is the use of a field-cap (Fliegermütze) with a cockade in front and a cloth Reichskulturkammer insignia upon the left side. I must admit I have not ever seen this. The uniform was worn during mayor events from state and party and such. Authorization for wearing came from the ministery by a special permit.
Information about the uniform was for example published in the "Uniformen-Markt", as well as in "Rundschau Deutsches Schneiderfachblatt". I must have a photo of a guy when photographing by another photographer.

Even more curious: in summer 1939 there was published a photo in a magazine from a guy who assisted such Bildberichterstatter by carrying a ladder (Leiterträger) or was his Messenger (Bote). He just wears an overall. If you see the photo you would never know what it is, when there is no description.

[wilhelm Saris]

Hello Stonemint,

I just saw you already started a thread at WRF about this.
I will post my stuff there. You can copy it and post it at WAF.
Use also my descriptions, please!

[wilhelm Saris]

Mark Costa,

can you show photos from an original visored cap for those called Bildberichterstatter (Propagandaministerium) with its "ins and outs", please!