List of Ministers according to this report of the CIA
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Marisca:
I does not matter whether they are State Ministers or without Portfolio they are STILL CONSIDERED Ministers. The fact is, the 4 across or 3/1 are for "Ministers" only. Send me your email and I will send you photos of the other Ministers wearing the 3/1. That is the issue here. Ministers or "equivalents" were the only ones to wear these and their is no distinction between portfolio or not. And Frick was a minister until August 24, 1943 when Himmler was appointed the new Minister of the
interior. The CIA has the wrong date. You can not trust anything written by the US Govt reports as they are full of errors.
Mark CostaComment
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Here is a list of Reichsministers and State Ministers and which type they wore all based on photos.
Popitz -- State Minister 3 up 1 Down.
Meissner -- State Minister 3 up 1 Down
Funk -- Reichsminister of Economics 4 Across
Krosigk -- Reichsminister of Finance 4 Across
Darre -- Reichsminister of Agriculture BOTH
Frick -- Reichsminister of Interior 4 Across
Gurtner -- Reichsminister of Justice 3 up 1 Down
Schlegelberger Acting Reichsminister of Justice 3 up 1 Down
Seldte -- Reichsminister of Labor 3 up 1 Down
Dorpmuller -- Reichsminister of Transporttion 3 up 1 Down
Frank -- Reichsminister Several different versions
Seyss Inquart -- Reichskommisaar BOTH
Terboven -- Reichskomissar BOTH
Lohse --- Reichskomisaar 4 across
Koch -- Reichskomisaar 4 across
So you can see it does not matter whether one has portfolio or not. The man wears what he wants without any distinction. Some Minister wear 4 across others wear 3 up and 1d down. None of the other Reichsministers such as Bormann, Rust, Kerrl , Goebbels, Lammers Todt etc seemed to wear the Govt uniform.
MarkComment
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Mark...
As long as no one shows me otherwise, they are two different badges for two different ranks. It does not make sense to show two different badges in the same period of time .... something has to mean two different badges. According to my theory 4 stars in parallel is for ReichMinister or Minister with Ministry of which he is responsible. StaatsMinisrter with three + one star for Minister without Ministry of which he is responsible (without portfolio). You say that the report is not correct ... What is it based on? ... perhaps you can provide more evidence than the CIA itself of that time?
According to his list, to put an example, Popitz is State Minister 3 up 1 Down ... you admit it yourself, it is State Minister and not ReichMinister.
Look what the Popitz CIA report says:
Other persons entitled to participate in the Cabinet....He says nothing of being a MinisterComment
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I have to go ... we will discuss later. My best wishes to all
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Marisca:
You just contradicted yourself. Darre, Dorpmuller, Gurtner, and Seldte are ALL MINISTERS -- By your theory they should be wearing 4 across --- BUT THEY ARE NOT -- They wear 3/1 types. They are Ministers WITH PORTFOLIO. The Reichskomisaars are NOT Ministers but they wear 4 across - explain that !!!! As I stated before the reason for the two variations is because some Ministers complained that the 4 across did show the stars well enough. The two end stars blended too much with the wreaths -- so some changed to the 3/1 style which is more easily recognizable. Their egos were at play here. Anyone of Reichsminister rank or equivalent could wear either style and did.
As I said if you email I would be happy to send you photos to back up everything I have stated here.Last edited by Mark Costa; 07-20-2017, 02:05 PM.Comment
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Marisca:
I have posted all the photos I mentioned here at the AHF so everyone can see that your theory does not hold true. Some Reichsminister wear one style and others wear the other style. These photos show that both styles were worn by Reichsministers with and without portfolio and by Reichskommisaars. The link to all the photos is below. These photos contradict your theory. Please note the photos are in reverse order than their descriptions in each post.
Mark Costa
https://forum.axishistory.com/viewto...88820#p2088820Last edited by Mark Costa; 07-20-2017, 01:48 PM.Comment
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Fantastic information and photos mentioned here. Tomorrow I will check it all and comment. To have a baby is very hard! 
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Friend Mark ..... I'm sorry but your theory does not convince me.
These photos only show that some Ministers with wallets showed at some point, that could be before having assigned portfolio, the badge of 3 + 1 and later showed the own insignia of ReichsMinister 4 stars parallel.
Thanks for these photos Mark ;-)
I will soon be able to respond with more evidence than they indicate.
At the moment I facilitate a scanner of a page of the book of Angolia "In the Service of the Reich" that, according to you is wrong in this aspectLast edited by marisca lrommel; 07-20-2017, 11:31 PM.Comment
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Maerisca:
Obviously you know nothing of the men themselves and their tenure and duties as Reichsministers or their equivalents. There is no date requirements on these insignias or the portfolios. Dorpmuller and Seldte were Reichsministers the entire length of the Reich and their insignias did not change at all. So your page just above from Angolia is already shown to be wrong. The photos show that Reichsministers with portfolio wore the 3/1 style which isI in direct contradiction of Angolia. Angolia is wrong as the photos show. Why can't you see that??? So any date changes in insignia is not true. The photos do not lie. The bottom line is that two variations existed and the proof is in the photos whether you want to believe it or not. I am done trying to convince someone who will not accept the facts when presented to them. End of discussion on my end.
Mark CostaComment
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Friend Marc.
Do not bother you man .... I am simply a person who likes to be 100% convinced and may not have agreed with you at the beginning but I have to announce that I am talking privately with another great connoisseur of this matter and, According to your contributions and other evidence found, I am working on an issue that will prove right to you.
I admit here and now that I am wrong but I will not say anything else until I clarify some aspects about this and make a new table or list of ranges that I am making.
I apologize if I have ever offended you. My intention is to learn and share ... I am relatively new to this type of collecting.
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Given the way in which users of this forum qualify me by private message and e-mails I decided to abandon this thread and not publish more about it.
Can i be wrong or not, but we must treat people with respect and dignity ... for Gods we already have Thor .... I'm sick of knowing all.
My only objective was to share and at the same time to learn but since my interventions offend, I end the matterComment
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Just add to clarify the matter that at no time this has to do with Marc Costa.
Marc has always treated me with respect even though I may be wrong as far as the insignia of Minister is concerned.
I take the opportunity to give the reason to Marc Costa and close this thread for me.Comment
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