When was this photo taken of a SA-Marine?

[BlackWatch1]

1933? Glass photo negative. Thanks

[squidney86]

I do not have my reference stuff with me but at a minimum it's pre-39.

Sydney

[Br. James]

I would agree that 1933 seems like a good year to apportion to this photo, given the eagle and swastika design on the cap. That design was in uniform use by the NSDAP Political Leaders from 1927 until 1934, when the first design revision of that symbol occurred. I am not certain whether the eagle worn on the SA kepis and peaked caps changed at/abut that time or whether it remained as the M-1927 pattern until the major uniform code shift of 1939. Other Party organizations such as the SS and the NSKK did make revisions in their official cap eagle designs when they became autonomous from the SA -- the unique SS design originated in 1936, as did the equally unique NSKK design -- and if the SA didn't make any change earlier, then Sydney's note stating "pre-1939" is as accurate as I can be.

A nice archival photo,

Br. James

[squidney86]

Finally able to look at my stuff but yes, it's the early style eagle/wreath as stated by Br. James. They didn't officially switch to the larger national emblem until 1937. Though there are pictures in Wilhelm Saris book that show it in wear after the official change had been made. Members of the SA had many of there "own" spins on their uniforms.

[laurens]

It's pretty sure this picture made between the 3rd of February 1934 and the 25th of October 1934. The Marine-SA wore an 'Alte Kampferwinkel' wich was introduces on February 1934. In Oktober 1934 the 'Ärmelstreifen für Altgediente' -long service stripes- was imtrodued and replaced the Winkel.

Best,
Laurens

[Gary Symonds]

2

[Gary Symonds]

Here is a good closeup of the early insignia, and I assume its subsequent modification with the addition of the HJ diamond insignia, rather than the early SA eagle.

Opinions, please.

[squidney86]

It's pretty sure this picture made between the alternative of February 1934 and the 25th of October 1934. The Marine-SA wore an 'Alte Kampferwinkel' wich was introduces on February 1934. In Oktober 1934 the 'Ärmelstreifen für Altgediente' -long service stripes- was imtrodued and replaced the Winkel.

Best,
Laurens

You always have the solid knowledge, Laurens! I hadn't even noticed the 'Alte Kampferwinkel'!

[Erich B.]

Bravo Laurens!
I didn't notice the Winkel at first either.
Take a look at the way the collar piping is sewn--it's twisted more tightly on one side than the other. Also the apparently metal numbers on the tab.
Erich

[laurens]

Thank you gentlemen