Blutorden 5252

[Ronny Bodine]

I acquired this item back in the mid-1970s while stationed in Stuttgart, Germany. During the time there I became a fledgling collector and this piece came to me from John Angolia, a Army Lt.Col. stationed there whom I got to know. Can anyone ID the owner of this medal or guide me as to where to look? I have seen on-line lists of recipients to 1500, but not beyond. Many thanks.

[ErichS]

Even without seeing your BO I can tell you that most probably it is a fake due to the fact that the numbering went only to about 4200.

[Erich B.]

Agreed--it's possible it was an unissued example that someone decided to incorrectly number, but whatever it is, it's not a legitimate example with that number.
The original 1500 or so 1st issue pieces are able to be identified as to the original recipient, however only a handful of the subsequent award number listings are able to have a name attached.
Erich

[Max_Porter]

Hello,

I have to agree with the others - a 5xxx is too high.

The highest number i have in my files is 4140. This medal was sold a few years ago.


Best Regards

Max_Porter

[Military]

As a younger collector, and from the other side of the pond, what happened to John Angolia?

Mil

[Ronny Bodine]

John Angolia

John and I became acquainted in the 1970s while stationed in Stuttgart, Germany with the U.S. European Command. He was a preeminent collector and once invited me to his home. What a collection. Display cases in every room, uniformed dummies, Ritterkreuze, Field Marshal batons, uniforms worn by Goebbels and Goering. I accompanied him on several meetings to include one of the Association of Ritterkreuztraeger whereby I acted as translator. These men were generals, submarine commanders and I recall in the introductions they joked about the lowest ranking Ritterkreuztraeger there, a Corporal. John is still alive at 77 and living, I believe, in Stillwell, Kansas. This is why I find it hard to believe the Blutorden I have is a fake because I got it from him. He was the authority on what was real and not. I have many of his books, but not the one that covered political awards. It has been 40+ years since we parted ways, but I think I will try and contact him and get his input. Many thanks to all for the replies.

[Richard]

Unfortunately though he authored many books and developed quite a reputation as having a pre-eminant collection, there have been quite a few discussions about him selling reproductions to the unsuspecting, no matter how close they felt they were to him.
Richard V

[der-hase-fee]

I will try and contact him and get his input.

Good luck. Hope it's not going to be a disappointment.

[Jon Fish]

Impossible for it be numbered over 5000, sounds like you were taken as a newbee by a respected dealer all those years ago, it happens. Unless its incorrectly stamped but very slime chance of that.

[robs]

I've seen a 7000 numbered BO in New Zealand, so plenty of high number fakes are definitely in collections.

[Jon Fish]

John and I became acquainted in the 1970s while stationed in Stuttgart, Germany with the U.S. European Command. He was a preeminent collector and once invited me to his home. What a collection. Display cases in every room, uniformed dummies, Ritterkreuze, Field Marshal batons, uniforms worn by Goebbels and Goering. I accompanied him on several meetings to include one of the Association of Ritterkreuztraeger whereby I acted as translator. These men were generals, submarine commanders and I recall in the introductions they joked about the lowest ranking Ritterkreuztraeger there, a Corporal. John is still alive at 77 and living, I believe, in Stillwell, Kansas. This is why I find it hard to believe the Blutorden I have is a fake because I got it from him. He was the authority on what was real and not. I have many of his books, but not the one that covered political awards. It has been 40+ years since we parted ways, but I think I will try and contact him and get his input. Many thanks to all for the replies.

Ronny,
I'm sure we are all interested, how did you get on speaking to Angolia ?

[Erich B.]

Impossible for it be numbered over 5000, sounds like you were taken as a newbee by a respected dealer all those years ago, it happens. Unless its incorrectly stamped but very slime chance of that.

Slime chance indeed!
Erich

[ErichS]

Slime chance indeed!
Erich

Absolutely no chance.

[Tony T-S]

I hope we hear how this went. It's very sad to hear about this sort of thing from the past. Nothing ever seems to change. At least we can get more answers now with forums like this

[Tom B]

Angolia...I have a bridge I want to sell ya..........