Bronze Hitler Head Bust for opinions & value

[mloppkit]

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[Vid]

Hello All,
Thank-you all for your your comments and opinions- appreciated. I think it has been established that its a nice enough original, with a value somewhere in the range of 1200 to 2500- maybe a little higher, maybe a little lower. Stan- thank-you for the translation- great to know what it was presented for.

Vid & Wags, I think Kevin was just trying to make sure he doesn't give up too much for it in a trade deal- someone else in the States has quoted him a ridiculously unrealistic value and this person is the monkey- not Kevin.
I appreciate the value you have given for it as I know that you have seen a lot more of these that most of us and for what its worth agree with your valuation due to the loss of 'bronze wash' finish.

Here is another one the same without the dedication that was for sale a year or so ago for $2000 and described as "Near 'life-size' bronze bust (9.25"h) on dark green marble base (4"h x 5"w x 5"d). Artist signed: TH. LINZ. Foundry: SCHOHA MUNCHEN. Total weight: 21 lb"

Best Regards,
Michael

Michael,

First, when I said monkey I had a particular deal in mind and a market mentality in general and was not referring to Kevin or whoever.

Market mentality is to bunny hop pricing with non equivalent pieces either in condition or manufacturer. So this is something to be mindful of when a valuation is requested. I used a number that I felt safe with pending photos and accounting for issues that may be in play, but the number was also the right buy price on a private sale or trade and not a high retail number.

I have handled more than a few and I am lucky if I get one really nice example a year, and when I do its generally going to be pre-sold and I have a list for these but I am such a picky bastard that I do not chase average pieces unless the number is right and I can make it a budget piece to a guy who does not want to spend a fortune, that is what I am looking at here and that is how I valuated it.

The market for these is better here in the U.S I think and I am always out for them but the dealers or some of them use this buy and flip mentality where they see a realized price and then grab any old bust and bring it in at the same number even know its not the same in any number of ways, and of course they sit unsold in most cases. That is market and something any monkey can do, thus my analogy with a bronze against a screwed up piece of iron.

Its a catalog piece by a decent artist and the one you posted has better photos than this dedicated piece that we cant really see, so its nice but its not a gold medal winner. The one you posted with the price of 2000.00 assuming it had no issues and was proper as advertised was priced right on a retail and I would probably have it higher by about 500.00 and would say that piece is a seller in the range of 1800-2500.00 in my opinion.

What this one looks like in reality I just do not know and would not venture over 1500.00 without knowing and not giving a considerable amount for the dedication as its an anniversary piece for some kind of singer club.

It can be frustrating breaking reality to people who see asking prices on the web that far exceed a market reality and when you try and explain it they run the highest number in their ear, try and get it though. I think whatever number was given was wrong if not excessive and would range this the same way I did above assuming it is the same thing in terms of condition and no surprises.

Best,

Kris

[mrec27777]

Thank you very much for your comments!!
I will be able to inspect and photograph it "first hand" tomorrow!!
Again I agree the pics are crappy ...[maybe on purpose for all I know] But they are what I have for the moment. More to come..unless the possible suggested problems become the facts of the piece! Then it is going back!
Thank you again.
Kevin

kevin ,haven"t heard back from you about this bust ...are you still going to post pics...

[blut und ehre]

Hi There again!
I did end up going through with the "bust deal".
The bust and base is almost 15 inches tall .....the bust itself is 12 inches...the base 6 3/8 by 6 3/8 by 3 inches tall........My scale is not working properly ....but I would say it weighs about 30 lbs. It does have a patina..it is not "polished off" ....it appears to have hand applied patina to the eyebrows ...mustache...and the "deeper valleys" of the hair and features!! It is quite nice!!
As "Vid" has pointed out ...the plinth is slightly bent and there is some "circular" gouging damage to the marble base [at the base of the bust] ...It looks as though someone had tried to twist or rip the bust off it's base at one time!I assume it would have been the vet who took it originally. I thought about maybe having it fixed ...but decided against it......It is perfect the way it is for me.
I'm having problems posting pics.......but I will see if my friend MLOPPKIT can give me a hand with that ...when he has a chance! Pics are on the way!
Thanks for everyones help..... !

[mloppkit]

Hi Vid,
Thanks for the clarification, you make a very important point about the dealers that use a 'realised' price to value an incomparable piece with an unrealistic price- I see it all to often and it drives me nuts.

mrec27777- I will post a couple of Kevins photos for him as he has taken some much nicer shots of this bust but I will let him post the rest as I know he has gone to a lot trouble to get this bust (which is bigger than the other one I posted by the same artist) and is rightly proud of it- Nice one Kev,

Best Regards,
Michael

[mrec27777]

micheal,thank you very much for posting the pics .....i always find lifesize or larger AH busts intriging ,and i believe somewhat rare ..as we all know ,most were scraped after the war ....kevin , that is a very nice find ...the better pics really help showing that ...NICE!!!!

[Vid]

Hi,

First of all congratulations and looks like a nice piece and one that anyone would like and enjoy.

As you mentioned someone tried to pry it and that is evidenced and can now see the forward base in your photo. This is o.k and you will be best advised to leave it be and not try and bend a plinth, it will snap. ;o) Fact is most of these are not perfect and the base is nice.

As valuations go there is no true formula for a listing and what one guy asks and gets another will not but the premise for market has been the same for a long time and now we have a bubble so to speak with some items and sellers.

Enjoy it. ;o)

Best,

Kris

[CWP]

Nice bust. I think $2K is reasonable for this. I certainly agree with Kris' comments about the market, a sound analysis with astute observations.

[mrec27777]

Nice bust. I think $2K is reasonable for this. I certainly agree with Kris' comments about the market, a sound analysis with astute observations.

chris, i tend to agree with you on value ,i estimated $2500.00 earlier based on some of the outragous prices on some dealer prices ,and the fact that it had original base with dedication .may have been a little .the plinth is bent ,(possibly cracked) looked like it might be in latest pics ,but i hope not , but yet this is a nice piece ,and good investment ...i don"t like the fact that it appears (cleaned) at some point and time ,...i have uncleaned ,bronzes ,and they have that dark green appearance ...anyway ,this is a great thread ,and what i like is when everyone has an opinion ,and add to the input ....again ,NICE BUST !

[blut und ehre]

Hi mrec 27777 and chris.....
Your observations are correct!! The plinth is bent....and has a small crack in one side. .....but it is still integral.
However it doesn't appear to be cleaned ..as I do not see any "missed" areas [hard to clean areas...deep recesses]. There is a darker "patina " or "stain ...that appears to be applied [by brush]to the eye brows ,,,mustache...and deeper regions of the face and hair....[I assume to bring out the "highlights"of the face] But I can see no evidence of cleaning at all!!I have seen very green and or brown examples as well...but this this one doesn't appear to have been either.[IMO]
I suppose a chemical or machine could have been used to clean it professionally ......But I can see no evidence of it?[no scratches or scrub marks...or cleaning residue]
It "screams" history....and I think it is a cool piece.It certainly draws a lot of attention in my"German room"

Thanks again for the your good words and comments!

Kevin

[mrec27777]

you"re welcome kevin, and you are correct ...IT SCREAMS HISTORY !!!

[Vid]

These could actually be optioned with the various patina's and some are unpatinated ( hope that's a word ) so some variables and they are certainly not all green.

Not everyone will display one and there was a time where I would not have one in the house but I got over that, not for everyone though. I have 2 here and both double life size, one Adolf and one Hermann and they look like chocolate bars their so dark.

I guess 2500.00 would be top end for a life size to an end user but when you get the big ones they command bigger money for sure.

Best,

Kris

[Franz Ferdinand]

Kevin good catch, very good catch !

Value is in the eye of the beholder on this one (and such). "Militaria" type imperfections do not apply in this case (don't bog yourself down with that), there is a whole other market out there, partially healthy and partially curious. Enjoy !

[mrec27777]

These could actually be optioned with the various patina's and some are unpatinated ( hope that's a word ) so some variables and they are certainly not all green.

Not everyone will display one and there was a time where I would not have one in the house but I got over that, not for everyone though. I have 2 here and both double life size, one Adolf and one Hermann and they look like chocolate bars their so dark.

I guess 2500.00 would be top end for a life size to an end user but when you get the big ones they command bigger money for sure.

Best,

Kris

hello KRIS, any way possible you could/would post pics of your AH,HG busts?...don"t see those sizes very ofter ,thanks, EC

[Vid]

hello KRIS, any way possible you could/would post pics of your AH,HG busts?...don"t see those sizes very ofter ,thanks, EC

Only one I have right now and they are hard to photo. Will try and get you better later.