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**Eric Von Rader** · 06-20-2011, 06:40 PM

I was referring to silverware patterns in general, comparing makers marks to the rings and how the fakes are made. To the best of my experiences and knowledge any embossed/stamped AH Eagles are not manufactured pre 1945 as no photographic evidence has been published to date. The example I had possession of was clearly made in the past 10 years as the silver stock was very fresh, no wear, no scratches, and stuck out like a sore thumb when compared to original AH Burckmann artifacts. Plus the collector confirmed he bought from Charlie Snyder. Odd there always seems to be an example for sale on his site?!

Bottom line the napkins rings posted makers marks are technically different from the originals. Wish I had better news.

**dolchmann07** · 06-20-2011, 07:24 PM

Originally posted by Eric Von Rader View Post

I was referring to silverware patterns in general, comparing makers marks to the rings and how the fakes are made. To the best of my experiences and knowledge any embossed/stamped AH Eagles are not manufactured pre 1945 as no photographic evidence has been published to date. The example I had possession of was clearly made in the past 10 years as the silver stock was very fresh, no wear, no scratches, and stuck out like a sore thumb when compared to original AH Burckmann artifacts. Plus the collector confirmed he bought from Charlie Snyder. Odd there always seems to be an example for sale on his site?!

Bottom line the napkins rings posted makers marks are technically different from the originals. Wish I had better news.

Ok, I just want to get it straight, you say the Bruckmann maker marks on the rings that I posted at the beginning of this thread, not the ones from Charlie Snyder... I am talking about the first post that started this thread and I ask, what is this based on. So you have any qualification's on what is a proper Bruckmann maker mark. Have you spent a long time studying the marks. Thank You for your first response and I hope you can shed a little more light on your opinion. Regards, Jack

**Eric Von Rader** · 06-20-2011, 08:15 PM

All of the rings are BAD. The makers marks on yours and the thread posted are not to the Bruckmann standard. I have studied these items for many years, handled dozens of original AH items w/ providence. If you study the original makers marks, you will see what I'm saying.

good luck

**Scott** · 06-25-2011, 08:04 AM

I don't know if the rings are period or not. My original comment was in regards to the Greek key design. I understood from various descriptions on dealer sites etc that this was machine engraved. Well those close ups of the key design certainly don't look machine engraved.

I also doubt ah napkin rings in general. As hitlers nest indicates, they are not listed on the official list for one thing.

I suggest doing a simple google image search for ah napkin rings and also find examples currently for sale on sites, save the images and then compare. I felt there were two distinctly different designs. One had an almost matt finish and looked worn down. The other was shiney and the details significantly sharper.

Really, I think there are all fake, until proven otherwise...

**zitadelle1** · 06-25-2011, 07:32 PM

Originally posted by Br. James View Post

Interesting that you read a comment that the napkin rings from the AH Formal Birthday Service were never used...I wonder where you saw that, and also who would have said/written it? There are only a very few people who were in a position where they could have made such a knowledgeable statement -- either Willy and Freda Kannenberg or Herbert and Anna Döhring or Georg and Anni Winter or the Mittelstrasers...? Any further documentation that these napkin rings are in some way less than genuine would be most helpful. We also understand that, even if a serving piece or a particular silver bowl was never used and kept in storage for years, that of itself does not cast doubt on the originality of a piece. Indeed, how many examples of medals and badges do we see in their original boxes or envelopes and packaging -- meaning that they were 'liberated' from a shop and never purchased or awarded to anyone -- and yet we understand them to be 'original.'

Br. James

without doubt 100% genuine.

**Eric Von Rader** · 06-26-2011, 10:24 AM

I find it VERY odd that no examples of vet found napkin rings have ever been documented in the 70+ years. Mark Griffith also has little confidence they ever existed, however anything is possible. I will choose to spend my hard earned money on known/ documented examples.

**Bill Stubno** · 07-24-2017, 09:02 PM

Hitler Napkin Ring

I have recently found an article in the Corunna News (Michigan), dated February 14. 1946. The article, entitled ¨Yank Colonel Says He Has Hitlerś Napkin Ring,¨ is located on page two of that issue. The article says:

Camp Shanks N.Y. - The 208th. Field Artillery Group arrived
from Europe to disband. Its Commanding officer believed he
had Adolf Hitlerś personal napkin ring in his pocket.
Col. Eric A. Erickson said he found the silver ring,
engraved with the initials ¨A.H.¨ in German script in a pile of
rubbish when he went through Hitlerś mountain home in
Berchtesgaden.

**Bill Stubno** · 07-24-2017, 11:02 PM

Frank D. Gish

In the 1980s, I had several conversations with Frank D. Gish of Denver, Colorado, who was a collector of Adolf Hitler Memorabilia. Using his knowledge, gained from his service in U.S. Army Intelligence, he said he was able to locate former American soldiers of the Second World War whose units were stationed in areas where Hitler items could be found to include Munich and the Obersalzberg. A number of them had A.H. napkin rings in their possession, in addition to other silver items that he purchased from them.

**Bill Stubno** · 07-24-2017, 11:06 PM

Frank D. Gish

In the 1980s, I had several conversations with Frank D. Gish of Denver, Colorado, who was a collector of Adolf Hitler Memorabilia. Using his knowledge, gained from his service in U.S. Army Intelligence, he said he was able to locate former American soldiers of the Second World War whose units were stationed in areas where Hitler items could be found to include Munich and the Obersalzberg. A number of them had A.H. napkin rings in their possession, in addition to other silver items that he purchased from these former combatants.

**Willie M** · 07-25-2017, 02:49 AM

Believe that the lack of documented vet finds compared to other AH Formal pattern silver service items, makes these pieces questionable at best . Bill Shea has had a couple of large direct ex vet groupings , Adler Muller around 105 pieces , Clarence Overman 44 pieces Including larger A H formal serving pieces , nil napkin rings ...

**CPB** · 07-25-2017, 04:52 AM

Anyone following the 'pink smock' debate in the SS forum?

The AH napkin ring debate reminds me of that.

Until one turns up in an undisputed woodwork veteran haul, I won't be a believer.

**Eric Von Rader** · 07-25-2017, 08:17 AM

In 70+ years we have seen many large vet hoards come to the market with solid providence and, there has NEVER been any documented AH napkin rings.

**11C** · 07-25-2017, 08:19 PM

These things were never around until the late 80's.............anybody have one before then? Anybody except Charlie Snyder I mean......

**John T** · 07-25-2017, 08:21 PM

I thought all AH napkin rings were fantasy items.

**ErichS** · 07-26-2017, 04:51 PM

Originally posted by John T View Post

I thought all AH napkin rings were fantasy items.

They are.

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Adolf Hitler Napkin Rings

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