Adolf Hitler Napkin Rings

[Lloyds]

You maintain they are faked and you allege fakery so then if you have the answers why not enlighten us and prove your theory.......What factory....? What dealer?[/QUOTE]

Why do you need to know are you thinking of having some made ?

[praubal]

Why don't you want to tell us...?

[CPB]

The AH silverware order for the Eagle's Nest is widely known and commonly available.

It contains no napkin rings.

Of all the buildings Hitler resided, that would have to be one of the places you'd expect to see them, right?

I don't doubt though that, somewhere along the line, Hitler was given 'AH' engraved napkin rings as gifts from admirers. I'm sure these turn up from time to time.

[praubal]

In reference to the napkin article, it informed the reader that napkin rings of some type of design existed. It was not in any way written to deceive. The article also appeared in the Canyon News (Texas), May 2, 1946, page 9; and the Wilks-Barre Record (Pennsylvania), November 27, 1945, page 5.
If napkin rings,manufactured for Hitler's table, were never sent to any of his residences, that situation would not be necessarily unusual in history, especially in wartime. For example, some staff officer buttons manufactured in England for Confederate uniforms were never shipped across the Atlantic Ocean. Some of these mint condition buttons did, however, did make it into collections years later in the United States.



As an afterthought, someone may want to call Ray Zyla, owner of, perhaps, the most honest and reliable military auction house in the United States, if not the world, and ask him why he had a Bruckmann Hitler Napkin Ring in one of his previous auction catalogs.

Most of the well known dealers I know say they are period.

[CPB]

Most of the well known dealers I know say they are period.

With respect, in some cases, that's like asking a fat guy if it's lunchtime yet.

[ebj]

The most logical answer I have come across is they were a late war item made for Hitler's birthday or another upcoming celebration. Therefore they obviously would not have been on earlier tableware lists. Somehow the shipment got sidetracked (maybe on a rail siding) and never arrived. Some GIs ran across some boxes and picked up a few.

They are not, in my opinion, typical of postwar production/reproduction items. They are nicely made and proof marked, at least mine is. Contacting Ray Zyla might be a good idea. I have bought, sold and traded with him since the late 1960's. He was the SA "coffee can" (kepi) expert, among many other things. He was actually sued by VW for his first Mohawk Arms catalog logo, an inverted VW emblem!

[ErichS]

If one is comfortable with these napkin rings in their collection great. But when the time comes to sell, it might be a problem to get your money out of them because most AH silver collectors that I have talked to don't want them in their collections.

[Herr Flik]

Most of the well known dealers I know say they are period.

Should that not set off alarm bells anyway since these are the very people seeking to profit from ignorance?

[BrianK]

Don't want to say anything negative about Ray Zyla, but there are plenty of fake items in recent Mohawk Arms auction catalogs.

[Bill Stubno]

Hitler Napkin Ring

I called Ray Zyla of Mohawk Arms today. He told me that the 925 silver content Bruckmann Hitler Napkin Ring is original. He also said that many newcomers to the hobby believe that they are experts in regard to fakes, but they cannot, in many instances, back up their claims as to whether an item in question is real or fake. Mr. Zyla stated, moreover, that poor craftsmanship or sloppy markings on a silver item were not necessarily an indication that an item was a reproduction.
In reference to the idea that an item was a fake due to faulty craftsmanship or sloppy markings on silver items, Mr. Zyla once asked a German, who worked at a medal and badge firm, about good craftsmanship. The man said that badges and medals with production flaws were seperated from the acceptable items and placed in a box in the morning. After lunch, these less than perfect badges and medals were dispersed in among the good items and shipped out for sale and distribution. The German worker said that since a war was going on, nothing could be wasted.

[11C]

I called Ray Zyla of Mohawk Arms today. He told me that the 925 silver content Bruckmann Hitler Napkin Ring is original. He also said that many newcomers to the hobby believe that they are experts in regard to fakes, but they cannot, in many instances, back up their claims as to whether an item in question is real or fake. Mr. Zyla stated, moreover, that poor craftsmanship or sloppy markings on a silver item were not necessarily an indication that an item was a reproduction.
In reference to the idea that an item was a fake due to faulty craftsmanship or sloppy markings on silver items, Mr. Zyla once asked a German, who worked at a medal and badge firm, about good craftsmanship. The man said that badges and medals with production flaws were seperated from the acceptable items and placed in a box in the morning. After lunch, these less than perfect badges and medals were dispersed in among the good items and shipped out for sale and distribution. The German worker said that since a war was going on, nothing could be wasted.

So we are to assume that these "bad parts" were put into a box........for "some" reason........only to be mixed in with the good ones later......That makes perfect sense... and Ray believes that must be true of bad napkin rings as well? They're all real......I guess. (Dealer speak ) I say, forget about proving that are NOT real..........prove to me that they ARE real. He can't do it, and that's the real truth about these things.

[SiPo]

Yours for only $5,500 ..... grab yourself a bargain!

.800 marked.

[FrenchVolunteer]

Hi,

If you insist they are fakes, "show me the beef!" I have researched and contributed to books over the years. How about one of you tracking down the source of them. Otherwise, you can only speculate that they are fakes, you cannot say for sure.

In science you have to prove the existence of something ("they are real napkin rings"), not the contrary.
Your reasoning is an epic fail.

See You

Vince

[FrenchVolunteer]

Hi,

I called Ray Zyla of Mohawk Arms today. He told me that the 925 silver content Bruckmann Hitler Napkin Ring is original. He also said that many newcomers to the hobby believe that they are experts in regard to fakes, but they cannot, in many instances, back up their claims as to whether an item in question is real or fake.

Mohawk Arms, the auction house that is flooded by fake fantasy items so evident that no serious collector is even watching their auctions anymore ?

Again, is Ray Zyla the mighty God on the Mount Sinai ?
Like in science Ray need to PROVE what he say, and oh strange he can't, like many of the dealers that flooded the market with fakes over the last decades to naive US collectors...

Ridiculous claims by ridiculous sellers...

See You

Vince

[FrenchVolunteer]

Hi,

The most logical answer I have come across is they were a late war item made for Hitler's birthday or another upcoming celebration. Therefore they obviously would not have been on earlier tableware lists. Somehow the shipment got sidetracked (maybe on a rail siding) and never arrived. Some GIs ran across some boxes and picked up a few.

Yeah, the shipment was on the Gold Train !

Your claim means that you don't know anything about regulations in the various Hitler's FHQ, where stuff were stolen as "relics" from visitors starting from the early 30's. To have napkin rings is just pure non-sense.
Also starting from 1943 the "Total War motto" was on, and such items would have been a) removed per Hitler order - Hitler was never a fan of luxury in his various FHQ and b) forbidden to be produced due to war regulations.

Contacting Ray Zyla might be a good idea. I have bought, sold and traded with him since the late 1960's. He was the SA "coffee can" (kepi) expert, among many other things. He was actually sued by VW for his first Mohawk Arms catalog logo, an inverted VW emblem!

1) yeah right, asking a dubious US dealer if something is "real or not"... I'm sure he will be "honest" and said to you "sorry i tricked people for the last 40 years, selling amongst fakes those AH napkin rings".
L-O-L.

2) argument of authority = disqualication of the claim.

See You

Vince