SA-MARINE MUSICIANS BROWNSHIRT the real deal.

[GEROME]

Hello
not I add by myself just like that.
thank you for your kind words, but your SA Navy is much more rare and it is superb
missing is the hat .....

[laurens]

Fantastic shirt Nick! Staff is not quiet correct. The original owner if this shirt was a member of the Musikzug wich felt under direct command of the Standarte. That's the reason you see no Sturm- or Sturmbann-number. The Spielmannzug felt under the Sturmbann. The wore the Sturmbann-number on the collar tab.

Best Laurens

Btw, the PL is a fantastic too!!

[sgstandard]

Naval-SA

Naval-SA School Instructor's tab...

[sgstandard]

Naval-SA

The configuration shown: (Lyre + Standarte number) was initiated in 1933, but according to Angolia's book, was worn by the Musikzuge Leader only, whereas the unit collar tab was in the normal SA pattern for all others. NOTE: The example in the book shows twisted metal piping around the tab also. From the inception of special Naval-SA insignia in 1931, I can't find any regulations that show the lyre worn on the unit tab by enlisted personnel. In 1931, 1932, they DID wear the lyre on the RANK tab, but the unit tab had just the Standarte number. I'm NOT saying the shirt isn't completely original - just citing the regulations from just one source.

[wewelsburg]

Yes indeed an odd anomaly but the tab is 100% and the lyre has ALWAYS been there,went over it with a loop.never had any piping or a anchor there.Its jsut one of those odd things.Mayeb soemthing inherit to that group only,anythings possible..Sa regulations were indeed hodgepodge during that early time when being adhered to.And it definately is enlisted and not a leader as they diodnt wear the nests.

[wewelsburg]

I did some research,,,I put this shirt at late 33 around the time the SAmarine became separate from the SA the Lyre/Standarte tabs had already been in effect for the regular SA,Since this shirt was from teh earlier date when the SA MARINE used the piping of the home gruppe they must have stuck to normal SA regulations,where they wore the Standarte number with the Lyre on the tab by ENLISTED men{late 33-late 38, as here is an example of Luftwaffe Blues SA shirt with a Standarte number and a lyre and its also low rank and from Same period showing regular SA regulations which I believe my shirt was using then,it was right around teh time regs.were changing so its TOTALLY plausible.,
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...t=sa+musicians

Also other tabs teh same way
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ht=sa+musician

That is most definately teh reason as Lyre has been on tab forever,you can even see color change behind it and also a severe indentation from when it was a younger tab,as its slightly more loose now.So guess they just used the rules of the SA Major as opposed to the SA Marine rules that just appeared at the time.

[wewelsburg]

Here is brwnshirt example above with Same configuration for SA,SA marine followed suit at the time as it was during teh time they used the Group colors as you can see the configuration is correct for the SA,note also enlisted no sign of piping on tab and .In the case of my shirt it would be considered fine at the time.Borrowed pics already here on teh forum from Luft Blue hope you dont mind to illustrate point

Supervisors and band members of band units, bun not assistants of SA bands, wore a metal lire in the group button color on the right collar tab behind the unit member.
Members of SA bands wore shoulder swallows nests in the group collar tab with seven stripes, either gold or silver according to group button color.
Band leaders wore the same swallows nest on their shoulders with the same demensions as before but with silver wire stripes and 3 centimeters long fride in gold or silver.
Supervisors of band units wore no swallows nests.

general SA did wear the standarte number with lyre on Enlisted personal tabs..from late 33 as per the 2 brwnshirt examples...was about teh time SAmarine was separating from the general SA and still using their gruppe piping...so in the case of my brownshirt its totally plausible for enlisted SA mann and SA marine mann enlisted to do the same.Your speaking of an earlier period.

[Shawn Southern]

Reverse of swallows nests

Wewelsburg:

Congratulations! Because my sole collecting focus is on musician items, I would be greatly interested in seeing a photo of the reverse of the swallows nests. My primary interest is the fabric used on the backing and the color of the same. Thanks.

Shawn

[laurens]

Ok, I wasn't very sharp when I shoot my reply yesterday.

I must have seen the Lyra for an ancor. Normally the leader of the Musikzug wore the lyra, BUT than without the swallows nests.

I've seen many pictures of music groups, and especially the early period to 1933 you see many non-regulations variations concerning the collar tabs.

It's not 100% regulation, but the whole picture is plausible enough for me.

I don't think the shirt is from another Standarte, and I only found M-St. 35 in Niedersachsen.

[wewelsburg]

and of the light blue brownshirt?It is the same configuration.Seems too much of a coincidence,must have been a regulation shortly lived early on,as teh tab on my shirt is definately has always had the anchor and is an enlisted tab.You are right though early on things were hazy but I think it must have been worn this way by the members in the rest of the band.

[GEROME]

Very nice wewelsburg

[laurens]

Nick I send you a PM concerning your shirt.

[yesthatsme]

Borrowed pics already here on teh forum from Luft Blue hope you dont mind to illustrate point

I dont mind at all I'm the owner of this shirt now.

[Erich B.]

Since taking the Marine bandsman shirt back, I've been searching through period uniform/insignia regulations and guides, and found several showing the same configuration--whether due to a misunderstanding of the regulations or short lived directives, here is one--above the image of the music tab is the information "The members of a Musikzug wear the lyra in front of the Standarte number".
I found a few more which I'll post once I've had time to scan them.
I also verified that the swallows' nests on the marine bandsman tunic are dark navy blue (not black) with a medium blue wool reverse.
Erich

[wewelsburg]

Super news on the tab I had thought so
.Really?they seemed VERY black to me.Doesnt mean thats wrong,teh only trace evidence of possible blue was a mothe hole,but looking closely it to me was indeed faded black.