Cool Grouping with Blood Order

[Erich B.]

Jon, there were MANY legit pieces from the Winner Estate, but you're right, how can one be sure of the EK1's provenance with no special markings. I'm sure there was a legit Hitler EK1 in the 1970 Auction, but with the one sold not long ago, there's no way to know if it was the actual one from the original Estate lot.

That's true, but if the actual Winter letter is included with the EK (which really is the value of the ensemble), it would be impossible to tell. But who would separate the letter from the cross to sell it with another? That would only leave them with an undocumented EK I.
Erich

[Jon Fish]

I had the opportunity to inspect this Blood Order,its a classic second pattern type 'c' in finish and details.

[ErichS]

I had the opportunity to inspect this Blood Order,its a classic second pattern type 'c' in finish and details.

Original yes, but without documents showing name and number, you really can't be sure that the medal belonged to Kaltenbrunner.

[Jon. H]

Original yes, but without documents showing name and number, you really can't be sure that the medal belonged to Kaltenbrunner.

Indeed. Without the documentation the BO is just the same as the KVK, an original award which is being claimed as Kaltenbrunner's.

[Jon Fish]

But guys it will be easily prooved if you had a look at his file, at the archives.His documents will include his blood order issue number.

[ErichS]

But guys it will be easily prooved if you had a look at his file, at the archives.His documents will include his blood order issue number.

Jon, this is the case only sometimes. In most cases, unless you find a copy of the actual BO document it only shows that he was awarded the BO with no number listed.

[Craig Gottlieb]

Image of the ring ...

Wow, I haven't even begun to look closely at this ring or the surrounding artifacts, but wow - what a cool design.

[Craig Gottlieb]

That's true, but if the actual Winter letter is included with the EK (which really is the value of the ensemble), it would be impossible to tell. But who would separate the letter from the cross to sell it with another? That would only leave them with an undocumented EK I.
Erich

A real history buff with no morals would. They would switch out the cross, pass on a "normal" one with the document, and then know in the privacy of their own collecting heart that they had the Fuhrer's Iron Cross in their possession. Besides, it would no longer be a 'money thing' since they'd have received strong payment for the group.

[Jon Fish]

Craig, in hand the ring awsome

[Craig Gottlieb]

It almost looks like it was designed or built by Klein. Did it have any manfuacturing marks? Looks structurally like the Platinum Oaks, Swords and Diamonds, or the P/O with Diamonds.

[Jon. H]

Well, well, well....................

[ErichS]

Well, well, well....................

And the group has surficed in Hamburg

[Jon Fish]

I saw it on Helmuts table in Kassel and had wondered why it was not on the site yet, he must have tons of stuff waiting to be listed on the site that is on sale during the shows If it was a first pattern Blood order or even an earlier 2nd pattern I would be up for it. Still,it is a very nice group and Blood Order, the ring is amazing also!

[ErichS]

I saw it on Helmuts table in Kassel and had wondered why it was not on the site yet, he must have tons of stuff waiting to be listed on the site that is on sale during the shows If it was a first pattern Blood order or even an earlier 2nd pattern I would be up for it. Still,it is a very nice group and Blood Order, the ring is amazing also!

It would also be worth it no matter the BOs vintage if there was some sort of period paperwork showing the number on the Order was actually Kaltenbrunners.

[Craig Gottlieb]

I still like the ring very much.