A couple of Cultural items

[Tobysauer]

Dear Thorsten,

Im always looking on the forums to learn more, by searching for cultural items i just discovered this topic:

CLICK

It is a very nice cultural candleholder.

Can you please tell why this is called a:



and



In my very humble opionion this is "just" one of the numerous cultural items as are illustrated many hundreds of times in period magaines? My grandmother used to have a candleholder like this in her kitchen, it belonged long before her birth to her parents and dated back to before 1900.

best regards,
Gaston

I agree Why should these traditional German cultural items be tainted with being connected to the SS and WW2 ?

[Thorsten B.]

For your consideration this part of an extremely rare DHW booklet:

Yes, the DHW was a cultural entity of the SS as most collectors will know by now.

[Thorsten B.]

Here for you a group of SS cultural items.

[jabnus]

Dear Gaston,

Maybe you still need some time to read this entire thread and find the appropriate comments and parts of shared knowledge, impressions and personal opinions.

I am patient and will wait for your answer regarding this matter.

Hi again Thorsten,

Sorry for the late reply, today is a bit of a crazy day for me, work and a dozen of other things keep interfering with the real important issues of life: being militaria collecting of course

Anyway, joking aside, regarding the candleholder above here i would say it is a nice cultural item. But unless it is pictured like here in a specific folder it is in most cases near impossible to tell from what period it is. Candleholders like this were made long before WWII and also after the war. Having brochures or books like the one you show here, at hand as "evidence" is the best thing a collector can have. But... many items like for example the candleholder that sold on the estand are in my opinion not at all related to NS or the SS. They are nice cultural items in their own right, but not connected to the background they are often described to have. If i may permit a comparrison? Most collectors like Allach porcelain, but calling all porcelain figures from decades before the war, other manufactures during the war and even post war produced porcelain, all Allach productions would be crazy? Yet this seems to be happening a lot with cultural items.

best regards,
Gaston

ps: i like your last photo. Last year someone overbid me on an Erbhof sign and i still regret not placing a higher bid. Is the reichsnährstand plate also pictured perhaps in period paperwork? Lately a lot of wooden plates are popping up everywhere. They may be nice cultural plates, but a lot of them i doubt to be related to the third reich. Yours has a swastika logo, so that of course gives it a clearer time period to date. The black allach vase and angel seem like real keepers too! What is the candleholder at the bottom?

[Thorsten B.]

Dear Gaston,

Thank you for your comment and point of view.

If we´d be able to detect all these cultural pieces from period pics I´d not even half the fun hunting and collecting them - even in regards to the official pieces like Allach porcelain they did make pieces which do not pop up in any period documntation as well or these historical sources may have been destroyed at some point.

As Steve said: if certain people do not feel comfy with these cultural gems they just should not collect them - then there will be no trouble.

Yes, my shown Reichsnährstand plate is indeed original from the period and is in almost flawless authentic condition, that´s why i am so pleased with it.
It was given as an official present from the Landesbauernschaft Niedersachsen (the Reichsnährstand was divided into Landesbauernschaften comparable to the Gaue of the NSDAP) to a member in 1941 - and was kept in a closet almost all the time.
It is constructed as a wall plate and offers a stunning atmosphere and is a perfect add to anyone´s SS cultural collection.
Untouched and not de-nazified as it is it´s quite rare and an eye-catcher.

[Thorsten B.]

Some more pics for you:

[Thorsten B.]

Some more:

[Thorsten B.]

A very elaborated wrought iron cultural piece:

[Thorsten B.]

More handcrafted details:

[Thorsten B.]

A masterpiece as well - and a national symbol.

[Thälmannpionier]

I agree Why should these traditional German cultural items be tainted with being connected to the SS and WW2 ?

correct!!!

and let me add something once again..

first of all...its my personal opinion on that matter but maybe some others share it..

even that :"its a original DHW Item..so its a 100%..SS bla bla bla" means actually next to nothing!
The onlyThing it really means is..it will proof that the Item "should" be from the period..BUT We already know there were similar Items(furniture, Pottery etc etc.) made long after 1945! by private companies that made german traditional Items for their regions...like it happened with the Tapestry just disccovered not long ago on this Thread..
so it will always be up to the collector or potential buyer of old german traditional decoration items, if they believe in it or believe the story of it...and we learned from the beginning of collecting (medals, uniforms and so on) never believe the story!!
Im always amused how some people try to push their ordinary for Example Candleholders (cause we are on the candleholder topic rightnow) claiming a strong relation to the SS..what a Laugh!

If you are a beginner in this cultural hobby..dont get fooled or blinded by some talking here! Please bear in mind once and for all..even the Deutsche Heimatwerk didnt produce their Items with the purpose to have them made specially for or related to the SS Culture and their followers!Yes, of Course the SS was involved with this in the background and promoted it..but that was it..

Its just much easier and much more of normal human sence again! The DHW Items were made primarily for ALL PEOPLE & FARMERS in the NS period to bring them closer again to their germanic Roots and to give the opportunity to decorate their homes,cafes, hotels etc. in a nationalistic and traditional way with traditional germanic ethnic household ware!! ..and of course some were probably in the SS..why not..but hey...THINK!

And furthermore is not to forget here!!... the WIFE decorated the home!! not the soldier fighting somewhere on the frontline..he didnt much care what kind of candleholder the wife decorated the house with....
and I even have one more We have especially one Person here who seems to live by the SS Family Book and it looks like it quite got him and his mind.......its just a written period Book bringing the SS Idiology to the people..but dont try to use it as a "Manual how the SS Families lived back then"....how many people´or better SS Members lived by this book or even had it in their bookshelf????...given how rare this book is compared to other SS Books on the market..common sense lets me think it were not many at all!!!!

I hope you get my point of view here..if english would be my native language I could have explained it better but I hope you get the Gist out of it.

this of course not applies for Example to the Julleuchter..they were a Gift from the SS to their Members

here is a good book about DHW in german
http://www.badw.de/aktuell/akademie_...staendecke.pdf


Thorsten,, your Oakleaf Candle Holder fits perfectly in a Hunting Collection next to some Antlers...but I bet yours has some tiny Runes carved in the Acorns
congrats to your "MINT" wooden Plate...I hope it will stay in your collection for a veeeerrryy looong Time

[Thälmannpionier]

correct!!!

and let me add something once again..

first of all...its my personal opinion on that matter but maybe some others share it..

even that :"its a original DHW Item..so its a 100%..SS bla bla bla" means actually next to nothing!
The onlyThing it really means is..it will proof that the Item "should" be from the period..BUT We already know there were similar Items(furniture, Pottery etc etc.) made long after 1945! by private companies that made german traditional Items for their regions...like it happened with the Tapestry just disccovered not long ago on this Thread..
so it will always be up to the collector or potential buyer of old german traditional decoration items, if they believe in it or believe the story of it...and we learned from the beginning of collecting (medals, uniforms and so on) never believe the story!!
Im always amused how some people try to push their ordinary for Example Candleholders (cause we are on the candleholder topic rightnow) claiming a strong relation to the SS..what a Laugh!

If you are a beginner in this cultural hobby..dont get fooled or blinded by some talking here! Please bear in mind once and for all..even the Deutsche Heimatwerk didnt produce their Items with the purpose to have them made specially for or related to the SS Culture and their followers!Yes, of Course the SS was involved with this in the background and promoted it..but that was it..

Its just much easier and much more of normal human sence again! The DHW Items were made primarily for ALL PEOPLE & FARMERS in the NS period to bring them closer again to their germanic Roots and to give the opportunity to decorate their homes,cafes, hotels etc. in a nationalistic and traditional way with traditional germanic ethnic household ware!! ..and of course some were probably in the SS..why not..but hey...THINK!

And furthermore is not to forget here!!... the WIFE decorated the home!! not the soldier fighting somewhere on the frontline..he didnt much care what kind of candleholder the wife decorated the house with....
and I even have one more We have especially one Person here who seems to live by the SS Family Book and it looks like it quite got him and his mind.......its just a written period Book bringing the SS Idiology to the people..but dont try to use it as a "Manual how the SS Families lived back then"....how many people´or better SS Members lived by this book or even had it in their bookshelf????...given how rare this book is compared to other SS Books on the market..common sense lets me think it were not many at all!!!!

I hope you get my point of view here..if english would be my native language I could have explained it better but I hope you get the Gist out of it.

this of course not applies for Example to the Julleuchter..they were a Gift from the SS to their Members

here is a good book about DHW in german
http://www.badw.de/aktuell/akademie_...staendecke.pdf


Thorsten,, your Oakleaf Candle Holder fits perfectly in a Hunting Collection next to some Antlers...but I bet yours has some tiny Runes carved in the Acorns
congrats to your "MINT" wooden Plate...I hope it will stay in your collection for a veeeerrryy looong Time




btw..a question that bothers me lately...does someone know if the DHW also exported their Items to other countries?

[Thorsten B.]

Andreas,

I almost feel sorry for you that you had to spend such an amount time and effort in writing your eloquent comment - hope you´ll be successful in finding some good stuff in future again as well.

Indeed I see no reason to sell my beautiful and original Reichsnährstand plate.

I could within a heartbeat but I don´t think I´ll find a better one.

And if you don´t feel comfy in this area of collecting - there are plenty of other niches to enjoy and feel content with.

Therefore: Happy collecting!

And this pic of a unique SS cultural item is exclusively for you.

[Thorsten B.]

By the way:

Your prefered book from Staendecke regarding DHW is not half as informative as this thread.

Staendecke has no clue about the real cultural and ideological background of the DHW at all - it´s a book for beginners.

The experts meet here in WAF only - lol!

[Thälmannpionier]

Andreas,

I almost feel sorry for you that you had to spend such an amount time and effort in writing your eloquent comment - hope you´ll be successful in finding some good stuff in future again as well.

And if you don´t feel comfy in this area of collecting - there are plenty of other niches to enjoy and feel content with.

Thorsten, i have plenty of time and it did not take any effort at all... probably different to you who always dies trying to interpret something in some of your items...respect for the effort you put in your overall "work"

I feel very comfortable in this area of collecting because Its enjoyable if you use common sense and if you just like a items in his own rights and style..not with a big SS blabla story behind it.


btw, Im glad you can laugh about yourself and understand for yourself that your phrase about the book was just a joke from you