"Mahnmal" monument centerpiece

[Koen P]

the fallen eagle

Hi,

I came upon this picture on a site, I have never seen it before...
maybe someone already posted it here?
The end of the Mahnmal...

Funny that the eagle is hanging from one of the hooks in the wall where they used to put the whreats.

[schoenwurf]

Yes but what a photo !
Here a photo (already posted I think) before the Mahnmal falls
The left sided hook is ready to welcome the eagle ...

[Volksturmer]

BrJames and Mil,
Regarding your comments about the lions on the Krupp Tisch:

I see what you mean, and agree. They could have been a little closer - a Lot closer - to the Bayerische Lions; they look more like an Art Deco ornament, don’t they?
Also, I wonder what AH thought about Erich Kuhn’s Art work? It doesn’t seem to fit his ‘heroic ideal.’
However,
Since Hoch Tief A.G. built/ worked on the Führer bunker, and Kuhn’s work adorns their building- and Especially since the table was a 50th birthday present from Krupp, and quotes Mein Kamf, I guess he wasn’t too picky about it at the time!

And nobody is arguing, especially me, that it is an incredibly important rarity, which is a cool item to see!

[Volksturmer]

Hi,

I came upon this picture on a site, I have never seen it before...
maybe someone already posted it here?
The end of the Mahnmal...

Funny that the eagle is hanging from one of the hooks in the wall where they used to put the whreats.

Koen,
I have never personally seen this photo, so thanks for sharing! I think if I had been there I would have focused on collecting some souvenirs!
John

[Br. James]

Hi Koen,

Yes, I have seen this photo of the Feldherrnhalle Monument before -- either here on WAF or on another forum -- as well as one or two others taken at about the same time. I believe that the bronze plaque and the eagle were taken away and cut up shortly after these photos were taken.

Hi John,

I know what you mean about souvenirs, and fully agree! But I'll bet very few GIs had any idea of what this monument commemorated as to it's significance in history. With the Wittelsbachs' City Palace right across the street, including it's royal museum, the Königsplatz and all of the major NSDAP buildings located just a few blocks away, and the HDK and Hitler's apartment on the Prinzregentensplatz a few blocks in the other direction, there was PLENTY to see and to "liberate!"

Br. James

[Volksturmer]

Hi John,

I know what you mean about souvenirs, and fully agree! But I'll bet very few GIs had any idea of what this monument commemorated as to it's significance in history. With the Wittelsbachs' City Palace right across the street, including it's royal museum, the Königsplatz and all of the major NSDAP buildings located just a few blocks away, and the HDK and Hitler's apartment on the Prinzregentensplatz a few blocks in the other direction, there was PLENTY to see and to "liberate!"

Br. James

James,
I see what you mean - You have an incredible grasp of the layout of buildings at the time! The GIs overlooked a lot of incredible items, I am sure you are right. I groan when I think of what they overlooked or threw away as ‘worthless!’
John

[Br. James]

Thanks so much, John. What we also don't know is how much "Nazi stuff" is sitting in boxes in attics and basements across the USA and around the world today -- "stuff" that was picked up by soldiers without any knowledge of what those pieces might really be, shipped back home with their other possessions, and thoughtlessly stored away as mementos of a terrible time in history. Succeeding generations have no idea what will eventually turn up in their family homes...but I still believe that that most historic of all relics of National Socialism -- the Blood Flag -- will one day come to the light again. I'm sure it's out there, folded up in a dusty box and long forgotten somewhere...! I just hope I'm alive to see it!

Br. James

[oldflagswanted]

Bood Flag Survives ???

... I still believe that that most historic of all relics of National Socialism --
the Blood Flag -- will one day come to the light again. I'm sure it's out
there, folded up in a dusty box and long forgotten somewhere...! I just
hope I'm alive to see it!

Br. James

Br. James:
Just had this translated from t=1044479 post #207...
provided by WS from the "Uniformen-Markt", in an
article by Dr. Ottfried Neubecker ...
"The Blood Flag of 9 November 1923, with which
the flags of the movement are consecrated ... is
not kept in the Brown House, but in the building
of the Reichsführung SS in Munich."
So the Blood Flag may have survived the Allied
1945 bomb destruction of the Brown House.
.......OFW

[oldflagswanted]

BF fate Video ...

Br. James:
Just had this translated from t=1044479 post #207...
provided by WS from the "Uniformen-Markt", in an
article by Dr. Ottfried Neubecker ...
"The Blood Flag of 9 November 1923, with which
the flags of the movement are consecrated ... is
not kept in the Brown House, but in the building
of the Reichsführung SS in Munich."
So the Blood Flag may have survived the Allied
1945 bomb destruction of the Brown House.
.......OFW

Also see this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAcViWCdZ
OFW

[Military]

Thanks so much, John. What we also don't know is how much "Nazi stuff" is sitting in boxes in attics and basements across the USA and around the world today -- "stuff" that was picked up by soldiers without any knowledge of what those pieces might really be, shipped back home with their other possessions, and thoughtlessly stored away as mementos of a terrible time in history. Succeeding generations have no idea what will eventually turn up in their family homes...but I still believe that that most historic of all relics of National Socialism -- the Blood Flag -- will one day come to the light again. I'm sure it's out there, folded up in a dusty box and long forgotten somewhere...! I just hope I'm alive to see it!



Br. James

Hi James,

Just for the sake of conversation, what do you think would happen if one day the Blood Flag is found? Would it be sold? Put into a museum? Stored and archived somewhere?

I doubt even if found, it would not be made public. No collector would risk telling anyone.

Mil

[oldflagswanted]

Blood Flag Video Errors ???

Also see this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAcViWCdZ
OFW

Noting the following errors in the as cited video ...
-----------------------------------------------------------
1. Video says Blood Flag was kept in the Brown House.
However, no photo is known, by me, of the Blood Flag
on display in the Brown House. Also Dr. Neubecker said
"The Blood Flag of 9 November 1923, with which
the flags of the movement are consecrated ... is
not kept in the Brown House, but in the building
of the Reichsführung SS in Munich."

2. Video says that the last in public use of the Blood
Flag was at the 1945 Berlin Volksturm ceremony.
However, no photo is known, by me, of the Blood
Flag attending that 1945 Berlin Volksturm event.

OFW
(below) Last known, by me, public use BF photo.

[Br. James]

Thanks, OFW. To my knowledge, and corroborated by your fine documentation, the last time the Blood Flag was used at a public event was for the Adolf Wagner funeral on April 18, 1944 when the Gauleiter was buried beside the Temples of Honor on the Munich Königsplatz. I recall reading that Jakob Grimminger, the standard-bearer of the Blood Flag, stated that he collected that banner from the tunnel system beneath the Brown House and the Temples, where it was stored for air-raid protection together with the other historic flags and banners from the Brown House display hall. I believe he said he returned the Blood Flag to that location following the event. I'm sorry to say that I no longer recall where I read Grimminger's statement.

[Br. James]

"Just for the sake of conversation, what do you think would happen if one day the Blood Flag is found? Would it be sold? Put into a museum? Stored and archived somewhere?"

Hi Mil,

Your question is certainly interesting! I'm sure that many here have wondered about that very thing happening! I would think that the matter depends upon who locates the Blood Flag and what that person does next. If the flag was found by someone who knew nothing of the period or of the uniqueness of what they discovered, the flag could be burned or tossed out with the garbage and wind up in a land-fill somewhere. Countless artifacts have been seen as "Nazi trash" and went that route. But if the finder had even an inkling of what was in their hands -- even to the extent that they found an old Nazi flag in battered condition, but knew that it could be worth even a small amount, given memorabilia value -- then they might take it to a local pawn shop or, if there was a historic or antique dealership nearby, they might take it there to see how much they could get for it. And there the true destiny of the Blood Flag would be decided: If this piece got into the hands of someone who realized it's value, then the 'dollar signs' would soar!

The banner could eventually show up at one of the high-end auction houses and the sky would be the limit! But the part of your question that is unknowable until it actually takes place is it's final destination. I'm sure that the Imperial War Museum in London would LOVE to get their hands on this piece -- what a centerpiece it would be for their entire collection!! The WWII Museum in New Orleans would also be very interested in obtaining this piece for their own collection. But if it wound up in the hands of a wealthy collector, then that could be the end of the public life of the Blood Flag. It could enter someone's private collection and never be seen again. And that would be a great loss for historians for countless years to come.

For myself, I would only hope that the Blood Flag would find its way into a permanent collection where it could be properly maintained and made available on display. Collectors and historians like everyone here on WAF would certainly travel to see it wherever it finally winds up!

Br. James

[Military]

Page 191 of Ulric's book says something about it. No one knows how true this is.

Mil

[Volksturmer]

Mil,
Thanks for posting the Ulric reference, I will look for it.
James, I enjoyed your different ideas, they set me to thinking about it again,it’s a question we have all asked ourselves, I am sure. I just hope the blood flag wasn’t disposed of. It’s a priceless piece of history. Any museum curator who says he/she wouldn’t have it in their museum is a liar.
It’s like the Crown Jewels of the Holy Roman Empire, the Americans found those, And they were well hidden and protected. In the 52 Schmiedegasse Allee secret bunker originally, then hidden elsewhere- but found.

The Blood Flag, on a whole other level, must have been protected, a holy relic of the Third Reich. If the Americans found it, they would probably publicize its destruction - had they destroyed it, but obviously they didn’t.
At the time, there was a very real fear of plans for a Fourth Reich.
I imagine the final scene from the Raiders of the Lost Ark- someone wheels a wooden crate, with generic army Numbers stenciled on it, into a huge warehouse Full of crates, to be stored forever.

However, I would bet it exists to this day. Just like all those SS rings that were buried in the mountains - (the Harz mountains, was it?) They exist somewhere.

I wonder, who has a good picture of the size and shape and look of the blood flag?
Here’s a very unhelpful picture of its details, but a good picture of how important it was.