The Coburg Badge

[ErichS]

Like already said, Bill Rasmussen also had one as well so there were at least two of the silver/red badges

[jimmy72]

I wrote you couldn't buy the badge if your life depended it. Not that you couldn't afford it. It will never be for sale. It was made 50+ years ago. First edition of Littlejohn's book with the badge shown was 1968.

Well , I didn’t know you owned it . That being said , for the sake of us enamel badge guys and for the sake of the hobby in general , could you post some clear photos of the edge of the badge and the enamel itself . Believe me , I would love to see a previously unknown period enamel badge !

[jimmy72]

Like already said, Bill Rasmussen also had one as well so there were at least two of the silver/red badges

Great ! No offence but ... point ?
Did Mr Rasmussen have info that can verify this badge as period ?
Thx

[jimmy72]

I guess JoeW is taking some photos of his enamelled Coburg Badge . In the meantime , does anybody find the reverse of the badge ... in and around the swaz area a bit odd ? How about , what we call the pebbling of the swaz .... looks like someone just scratched away at that part ! Maybe used Hitlers toenail ? See , we can say anything without proof ... we can even say it’s a real period badge awarded once posthumously and once to Frau Suchandsuch . It really is that easy and if you are wrong .. oh well ! Prove me wrong ... post the evidence that makes this a period badge.

[Erich B.]

No one has to prove anything--assuming one ever comes up for sale, if you like it and can afford it, you buy it. If you think it's a fantasy piece, you don't. I've never held an example of this Coburg in hand--I would not be able to make an informed judgement without examining one, however judging only by the photos, I see no reason to doubt that it was a period piece. There are a number of items that don't show up in photos or in the manufacturing guides that are original. And if you compare the silver Coburg to the so-called pre-Blood Order, the difference in quality of manufacture and design is like night and day. I have examined one of those and wasn't buying it, literally or figuratively.
I think everyone gets your point, jimmy72. It's a fantasy badge in your opinion. That's fine and you're certainly entitled to your opinion. IMO the horse is dead.
Erich

[FrenchVolunteer]

Hi,

A one of a kind fake made fifty years ago and not another seen since?

This is irrelevant. I have hundred of fakes Germanische Leistungsrunen and Croix de Guerre Légionnaire in archives, most taken from the net. This is only a small percentage of what is in collection. Same for originals.

Also good fakers know that the best is to do a limited amount of fakes that can't be linked together. For the current "high-end fake" of the the CDGL, the link between all copies was essential to identify the crook. This is what doomed the guy.

See You

Vince

[FrenchVolunteer]

Hi,

No one has to prove anything

however judging only by the photos, I see no reason to doubt that it was a period piece.

I find these two comments very dangerous, especially in a hobby that can be very expensive, and is flooded by fakes. So we need to trust "nice stories" and "good looking items" over facts and scientific method ?

I think everyone gets your point, jimmy72. It's a fantasy badge in your opinion.

No, this is a fantasy badge in the opinion of critical thinking.
We are not speaking of a variant or a small obscure tinnie, we are speaking of a "special version" of the most important award of the NS period, courtesy of Adolf Hitler himself.

In November 1936, Hitler gave new "orders" for the "Orders and Awards" of the Third Reich. The top NSDAP awards are listed in this order: 1. Coburg Badge; 2. Nuremberg (Nürnberg) Party Badge of 1929; 3. SA Treffen at Brunswick 1931; 4. Golden Party Badge; 5. The Blood Order; followed by the Gau badges and the Golden HJ Badge.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coburg_Badge

And there is not a single proof that it existed, even on tentative drawings.

The probabibilities that this is a fantasy badge crush the ones for an original badge that would have been kept unknown for more than 70 years.

Even more if miraculously the two badges survived the war... to the contrary of any period evidence.
It would be interesting to know where Robin Lumsden got the info about them being awarded.

See You

Vince

[Erich B.]

Vince,
if you re-read my post, you'll see that you missed my point.
Erich

[der-hase-fee]

In November 1936, Hitler gave new "orders" for the "Orders and Awards" of the Third Reich. The top NSDAP awards are listed in this order: 1. Coburg Badge; 2. Nuremberg (Nürnberg) Party Badge of 1929; 3. SA Treffen at Brunswick 1931; 4. Golden Party Badge; 5. The Blood Order; followed by the Gau badges and the Golden HJ Badge.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coburg_Badge

Hi Vince, it's dangerous to quote from Wiki instead of the real source: Parteiamtliche Anordnung vom 6. November 1936.

The order the awards are listed in is chronological, referring to the event they relate to; obviously the GPB, BO and others do not fit in. The order does not represent their importance ("top down"). The most important political award was the German Cross of the NSDAP, the party badge line-up.

[FrenchVolunteer]

Hi,

der-hase-free : thanks for pointing up this obvious wrongly understood text on Wikipedia.
Do we know if there are some period and official statements of the importance and grading of the NS awards ?

Erich B : my point is that in the "red" Coburg badge case, we don't have any single fact that may us "believe" that the badge may be legit.
My position or the position of jimmy72, John Fish, Br. James and others are not "opinions" if they are based on the fact that we are... lacking facts.
You are right that anyone can like the badge, and buy it if find it "cool".
Be it should be dissociated from the "originality" of the item.

See You

Vince

[Tony T-S]

Correct. As the positioning of the arms of the Swaz arms over the top of the wreath right and left is typical post war from Souval to current rubbish like the cheapie I own, I would have said postwar, but who knows, all these copies from Souval onwards might have copied this prewar example... if that's what it turns out to be. The fact that the swaz on the originals only just meets the wreath right and left makes me wonder about this.

[jimmy72]

Hi,

der-hase-free : thanks for pointing up this obvious wrongly understood text on Wikipedia.
Do we know if there are some period and official statements of the importance and grading of the NS awards ?

Erich B : my point is that in the "red" Coburg badge case, we don't have any single fact that may us "believe" that the badge may be legit.
My position or the position of jimmy72, John Fish, Br. James and others are not "opinions" if they are based on the fact that we are... lacking facts.
You are right that anyone can like the badge, and buy it if find it "cool".
Be it should be dissociated from the "originality" of the item.

See You

Vince

Well said .

[JoeW]

Hi,

der-hase-free : thanks for pointing up this obvious wrongly understood text on Wikipedia.
Do we know if there are some period and official statements of the importance and grading of the NS awards ?.......................See You
Vince

Vince, this enormous thread has many posts regarding the supposed grading of official party awards in order of importance. In post #874, I noted the official decree for the Coburg badge. I believe the supposed order of importance was merely the successive order in which they were recognized as official party awards. I have yet to see in documentation any official statement identifying the awards by importance.

[Gary B]

Stickpin

Here is a pin in an upcoming auction. Different than the on I own.

Thoughts? MM for Deschler.

Gary B

[JoeW]

I thought I would add this photo of Christian Weber to the others on the thread. While his CB is not in full view, the image is a bit nicer than the others.