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**Jon Fish** · 07-18-2012, 03:51 PM

Saw one fake BO yes, standard fair.
I too are focusing on Blutorden and picked this up with an eye to move it, trade hopefully if someone has something I like

Better keep this thread on track now tho.

**ErichS** · 07-18-2012, 04:51 PM

Jon, a nice find and not too many of these badges around!

Joe & James,

after the brilliant research on the 10th anniversary celebrations that you both have found, I now agree that the most accurate account of the events come from Schwede Coburg. With that being said, Ludecke's eye witness account of the battle is invaluable to the understanding of the importance of the event along with high regard placed on the badge of the early party. Best, Erich

**Br. James** · 07-18-2012, 05:05 PM

RIGHT ON, Erich! I couldn't agree with you more, including the importance of the first-hand reporting Ludecke offers posterity regarding the original 1922 event. What great fun this has been!

And as for Jon's latest acquisition...envy forbids me to say anything further... (Good going, mate!!)

Br. James

**JoeW** · 07-18-2012, 05:09 PM

Originally posted by ErichS View Post

Jon, a nice find and not too many of these badges around!

Joe & James,

after the brilliant research on the 10th anniversary celebrations that you both have found, I now agree that the most accurate account of the events come from Schwede Coburg. With that being said, Ludecke's eye witness account of the battle is invaluable to the understanding of the importance of the event along with high regard placed on the badge of the early party. Best, Erich

Such eye-witness accounts as Ludecke provided for history are invaluable to the understanding of the events of Coburg 1922.

**ErichS** · 07-21-2012, 02:46 PM

Member Coloradocowboy was nice enough to allow me to post this photo of Hildorf Freiherr von Thuengen wearing his CB. He was a true Alte Kampfer also holding Blood Order # 110.

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**John Pepera** · 07-21-2012, 03:03 PM

Damn! Neat picture.

He has everything:

Blood Order, Coburg badge, early flat top SS officer's hat, SS belt and cross strap with officer's buckle, Early SS dagger.

Wonder what the whitish bar is above his left pocket and also the arm shield on his left upper arm above the arm band.

Anyone have his phone number?

**Jon Fish** · 07-21-2012, 03:15 PM

Mega photo, John- no GPB though or else it would be a Royal Flush !

**ErichS** · 07-21-2012, 03:42 PM

His Party # was 173 397 and SS # was 1928 so he didn't qualify for the GPB, go figure!.

**JoeW** · 07-21-2012, 11:36 PM

Originally posted by John Pepera View Post

Damn! Neat picture.

He has everything:

Blood Order, Coburg badge, early flat top SS officer's hat, SS belt and cross strap with officer's buckle, Early SS dagger.

Wonder what the whitish bar is above his left pocket and also the arm shield on his left upper arm above the arm band.

Anyone have his phone number?

John, would the sun shinning on his WWI ribbon bar produce the white bar you see? And would the arm shield be the Freikorps Epp arm insignia, the round metal piece stamped with a lion's head on the diamond shape? I usually see them on the lower sleeve, but what the heck? This was an early photo I guess.

**John Pepera** · 07-21-2012, 11:51 PM

Joe,

I guess on both accounts, could be, could be. But, the supposed medal bar seems to be canted to an extreme.

As far as the arm shield, yes again it could be as you say the Epp Freikorps shield which is typically seen on the lower arm area.

Then again with his rank, who would correct or chastise him?

**JoeW** · 07-22-2012, 12:53 AM

Originally posted by Br. James View Post

I think we've pretty much nailed down the course of major events comprising the 'Coburg Adventure' and the Battle of Coburg. I don't know of any other memoirs or anecdotes from other participants over those two days...though that is not to say that there haven't been any others published. Quite a few of the most prominent NSDAP members of that time and later were present those days and it would have been good if at least one or two of them had mentioned it in print over the following years:
Hermann Esser
Max Amann
FX Schwarz
Ulrich Graf
Gottfried Feder
Christian Weber
Rudolf Hess
Julius Streicher
Alfred Rosenberg
Martin Mutschmann
and though Wilhelm Brückner was not present, his deputy, Julius Schaub, was.

Were there any attributions of 'Martyr of the Kampfzeit' identified with the Battle of Coburg? I can't think of any, though I don't have my copy of "Ich Kämpfe" at hand for its 'martyrology.'

Br. James

Well Br. James, I found another account of the events of Coburg 1922. I accessed a copy of Das Jahr der SA. printed in 1939 but covering the events of from RPT 1937 through RPT 1938. On pages 205-209 is an article titled "Der Marsch der 800 in Coburg" that remarked that on the occasion of the 15th Anniversary of the Coburg 1922 days, Reichsleiter Max Amann prepared a short article on his reminiscences of the events that occurred in Coburg in 1922 or publication in the "SA Mann."

Amann wrote that party member Hans Dietrich of Coburg had written to Hitler in the first days of October 1922 to invite him to speak at the Deutschen Tag. Hitler realized the opportunity this presented. He had earlier appointed Amann as Geschaftsfuhrer (Managing Secretary) of the Party and spoke to him of the opportunity the trip presented. Amann was to make arrangements. He contacted the railroad authority in Munich regarding the requirement to hire a good size private train to take the troops to Coburg. Two days later arrangements had been made.

Hitler and his group showed up at the Munich railroad station, where Amann paid the railroad authorities the required fees and received permission and his Ausweis as Transport Leader for the journey of the "Deutschen Arbeitersverein" to Coburg. At first there was some initial reluctance on the part of the railroad authorities to permit this "political party" to travel as the SA was parading around the terminal with their banners. But after discussion between Amann and authorities the train was allowed to leave with their banners furled.

The trip was an exciting venture for all the young SA men accompanying Hitler as well as for witnesses in the station through which the special train passes. There was a ten minute layover in Nurnberg, where after some of the more jubilant SA men left the train briefly with flags flying. This produced some consternation amongst Jewish travelers who complained to station authorities. Again, the party leadership was faced with angry railway officials who were prepared to turn the train back to Munich. At this point, Amann's narrative seems to be identical with Hitler's description of the events upon leaving Coburg on the 15th. In Nurnberg, Hitler went on the verbal offensive that he had a crew ready to take the train on to Coburg, to the disbelief of the authorities. Amann stressed to them that funds had been paid and he was in possession of a permit for the train to travel to Coburg. Again a compromise was made and the banners were furled and taken inside the coaches.

For the rest of the trip to Coburg, preparations were made for what was anticipated to be a battle. There were two medical orderlies with the SA troops and Hitler ordered them to be assigned to Hundertschaften that were to be in closed formations for battle. On arrival at the Coburg station, the special train was met by train personnel as well as the station management. Because of the mob of Marxist demonstrators outside the station, Hitler was urged to keep his men indoors. There was no mention of any police authority or officers of the German Days event being present.

Amann concluded his recollections with the comment that Hitler refused all negotiations and the rest was history as presented in Hitler's Mein Kampf. The rest of Amann's article dealt with the growth of the SA after Coburg and its everlasting importance to the development of the SA and the success of the NSDAP. Amann mentions the Coburg badge in this translated sentence:
The march to Coburg is an immortal part of the history of our young movement, and therefore winds about the bearers of the medals of Coburg a never wilting wreath of laurel. (Wreaths of laurel were symbols of triumph).

**Br. James** · 07-22-2012, 07:05 AM

Wonderful work, Joe, and a great addition to our knowledge of these events! I hope you are planning to write the definitive account of the Battle of Coburg for all of us to enjoy! Thank you so much!

Br. James

**JoeW** · 07-22-2012, 07:22 AM

I forgot to add that in contacting the railway authorities in Munich, Amann wrote that he purposely chose the name of a harmless association (eines harmlosen Vereins) as a precaution while making inquiries about transportation to Coburg.

**Jon Fish** · 07-22-2012, 07:43 AM

Originally posted by JoeW View Post

John, would the sun shinning on his WWI ribbon bar produce the white bar you see? And would the arm shield be the Freikorps Epp arm insignia, the round metal piece stamped with a lion's head on the diamond shape? I usually see them on the lower sleeve, but what the heck? This was an early photo I guess.

Isn't it a bit wide for a ribbon bar? It must be though....
Also thats a wound badge from WW1 under his coburg badge.

**der-hase-fee** · 07-22-2012, 07:46 AM

I believe the 800 count of SA men traveling on the train/marching in Coburg is inflated based on the fact that Munich's SA had just been organized into 8 Hundertschaften (groups of 100). Actually, this act in the first place probably was to inflate membership numbers, or better the perception of it.

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