Guidance on Diplomatic Insignia (group)

[3x3cut3d]

florian.
good of you to take time out and clarify a few points for us...lets go over a few shall we?

1.) I contacted Julian a few months ago to get in contact with his "person", as I needed some Insignia of the DAF reproduced, as this is my collecting field. That´s right.

what you have forgot to mention is you also had diplomat insignia made.did you not?..

2.) It was never my intention to fool somebody

im having a hard time believing you...

3.) I am offering these Insignia now for a long time in a big online auction house as reproductions. I also have a dealer who is buying them from me AS Fakes to sell them as "high-end" fakes !

care to inform the members of the forum as to the name of this big online auction house?..and who the dealer is selling these "high-end fakes"?..

I never sold only one insignia as an original one !

but you tried to .

in helping to ascertain if this insignia being offered by florian..was what he was purporting it to be...rick forwarded photos and correspondence from Florian to me.

let us continue...

3.) I showed Rick (Phoenixpwb) a few of my diplomatic items, as he asked for them. I sent him also the picture which was the first posted on this topic (black-white picture). That picture contains the shoulder boards, the armpatch and unfortunately the cap eagle.
The cap eagle is a fake

thats not what you were telling rick though is it?...

you said...

Have to say that one shoulder boards is at the moment by another collector for study, he plan´s a book about that stuff

well i wonder who that could possibly be...nimrod is it

and what did nimrod say?..

I am not the seller of the said insignia group BUT I had one of the shown shoulder boards for research works by me, as I plan a book about the diplomatic and gouvernment uniforms and insignia.

tell us florian.. have you got the shoulder board or does nimrod have it?

florian is now going to tell us about this diplomat set...

you said...

All the diplomatic stuff came from an over 25 year old collection of a collector which died a few months ago. I also got from that collection 4 (!!!) complete document, medal and insignia groups of high ranking diplomats...That items are for 100 % original

so the cap eagle is over 25 years old is it?..
jesus,,,doesn't time fly..it only seems like 18 months ago i had them made

when rick posted the set from florian on the forum for people to give their verdicts the intial response wasn't good..rick then asked for florian to view the thread..

what did you say florian?..

I read the post at the moment and don´t know if I should laugh or cry

i know what i was doing florian..and it wasn't crying

followed by...

These people don´t have any knowledge about these insignia but say that these are "looking like pakistani fakes" or "would run away". If they would know how a pakistani fake would look like, they wouldn´t post such nonsens.

As they couldn´t post any other pieces for reference, why should they know if these are fakes? They don´t know how original stuff look like!

And Mr.TexasGauleiter says that he never own such a group, but posting such a crap. If I never own a piece (medal, tunic, insignia) I don´t give any opinions as I simply don´t have the knowledge.

I will not post anymore any stuff at this forum - this thread is good example for the reason.

If you would hold these insgnia in your hands, you would part my opinion, that they are ok.

It´s your decision, if you don´t like them anymore, let it be.

But please overwrite my name tag on one of the photos from the thread...
kind regards

the most telling line from all that was this...

But please overwrite my name tag on one of the photos from the thread...
kind regards

dont you want your name associated with 100% orginals florian?.

whats that you said...

I made this picture with my scanner some time ago, as I hadn´t an original eagle at this time, I put for display purpose the fake eagle on it

ohhhh. it's a fake eagle now is it..

things are going from bad to worse now for florian his reputation..sinking lower than a whales tit!!...lets try a damage limitation exercise ...

you said...

I don´t want to ship any repro crap outside my home in exchange for original stuff and will contact the former owner who sold me the items

i have some very bad news florian..i hope your sitting down..as this may come as a shock to you...HE'S DEAD REMEMBER!!

All the diplomatic stuff came from an over 25 year old collection of a collector which died a few months ago

BUT WHAT ABOUT THE SHOULDER BOARDS I HEAR YOU ASK!!...

read on...but first a word from my embroiderist

Good morning Julian, how is life in England ? ,--)))

Thanks a lot for your email and attachment.

Of course, I remember Mr. Florian Wuest and I am still in contact with him as I am currently arranging embroideries for him. Among these are also these fantastic shoulder boards.

As soon as these particular shoulder boards are ready I could definetely send you a photo, but this will take some weeks as we just started and these shoulder boards are very particular as you know .......

over to you florian....

That boards are not showing a special rank, they were for the gala evening dress of the diplomats and are extremly rare.
In a few weeks I will get another pair of them.
I paid for the two boards + armpatch + one cap eagle 1800 Euro...

i rest my case

ps..if anyone wishes to see the full text of these emails..dont hesitate to contact me...
cheers

[mjfur]

3X3,

You "Magnificent Bastard"!!!

Regards,
Mike

[Koj]

Hello Julian X.,
that´s right, I already sent your embr. a few original insignia to reproduce it, but that is all.

care to inform the members of the forum as to the name of this big online auction house?..and who the dealer is selling these "high-end fakes"?..

As I am not you, I don´t give personal details out until I know if the person hasn´t anything aginst the public publish of his name, so I will it first ask him.

Link to the auction house:http://www.militaria321.com/index.cfm and type for example "Diplomat" in the searches.

thats not what you were telling rick though is it?...
you said...

Sure, I already said I made a mistake putting the fake eagle on the display picture. It was a stupid mistake, which I saw too late, not more.

tell us florian.. have you got the shoulder board or does nimrod have it?

Jean had this boards already a few months ago for review, now your embr. does have it. Tell me, how does it look like if I say that one of the boards is currently by a manufactuer of fakes? B. will inform you probably today.

florian is now going to tell us about this diplomat set...

As the original insignia (armpatches, shoulder boards) does came from this collection ! Beside other items like uniforms, document groups, photos.

when rick posted the set from florian on the forum for people to give their verdicts the intial response wasn't good..rick then asked for florian to view the thread..

That´s also right as I wondered how people judge about stuff they never had in their hands. Still, the boards and the armpatch are still originals.

the most telling line from all that was this...
dont you want your name associated with 100% orginals florian?.

The boards and the armpatch are still 100% originals, so still don´t have a problem that my name is written on these
generally that has nothing to do with my "eagle mistake". On every item I´ve for sale I don´t write my name tag, thats all. I´ve to say on this moment I noticed the false eagle, and offered rick to freeze the deal. During this time, the whole set was said to be "fake". I also have to reckon that Rick is maybe posting it here to get comments

i have some very bad news florian..i hope your sitting down..as this may come as a shock to you...HE'S DEAD REMEMBER!!

Sure he´s dead, but how should a dead sell items? There have to be somebody how can sell this items for me. For less I am getting nothing.

BUT WHAT ABOUT THE SHOULDER BOARDS I HEAR YOU ASK!!...

As I will get another GOOD pair in a few weeks, that is also the reason that I am selling my other GOOD ones. I didn´t talked about the fake ones which will be probably ready in a few months. If you intention is right, wouldn´t it make not more sense if I had waited for the fake boards (of a value of a few Euros) to give these fake boards rick and keep the originals (with a value of ~1500 Euro) with me?

That is everything I can tell at the moment. It´s a very embarrassing situation...for me

[THChick]

what becomes of a known fraudster when he's publically 'outed' on the forum?

Does he get stoned?

[Arran]

what becomes of a known fraudster when he's publically 'outed' on the forum?

Does he get stoned?

Well, If I was Koj I'd be rolling a big fat one right now...

[3x3cut3d]

florian..
how much more rope do you need?...

Sure, I already said I made a mistake putting the fake eagle on the display picture. It was a stupid mistake, which I saw too late, not more

you said that after rick had posted your items..and i showed my eagles..not before!

you said...

That items are for 100 % original.

with regards to the shoulder board..you are now saying..

Jean had this boards already a few months ago for review, now your embr. does have it.

tell me..is she writing a book about it too?

Tell me, how does it look like if I say that one of the boards is currently by a manufactuer of fakes?

how does it look?...not very good from where you're sitting

you intially told rick this...

Have to say that one shoulder boards is at the moment by another collector for study, he plan´s a book about that stuff

and then this...

In a few weeks I will get another pair of them.

the suspense is killing me!....where from florian?

did you mention that your shoulder board was currently being copied.when you were trying to sell them to rick???

or did you "forget"?..

Still, the boards and the armpatch are still originals.

which set of boards were you going to sell rick?..

lets talk about the eagle..

you said..

I´ve to say on this moment I noticed the false eagle, and offered rick to freeze the deal.

when you noticed????.... when you noticed??...
how in gods name could you fail NOT to notice...

YOU WERE THE ONE WHO HAD THEM MADE!!!

this getting all too tedious

As I will get another GOOD pair in a few weeks, that is also the reason that I am selling my other GOOD ones

yes..and we know where the GOOD pair are coming from dont we??

It´s a very embarrassing situation...for me

would you have been embarresed if rick had given you 1800 euro's??..

cheers

[Garry M.]

I know nothing about diplomatic insignia but then again, that's not what this thread is really about now. Thank you very much 3X3Xcut3d. I'm not so blue-eyed to think that this kind of thing isn't happening all the time but to see it unfolding in front of your eyes in the space of a few posts is stunning. Good work and shame on the parties involved in trying to pass these insignia off as authentic.

[THChick]

Does ANYONE think this Florian guy (KOJ) actually made a mistake? Or, is it (much) more likely that he's gotten caught, hands down, red handed, trying to screw another member of this forum out of valuable militaria in a bogus trade deal?
Is it the Membership's desire to to have this kind of person hanging around an, if so, which one of YOU will be next on KOJ's hit list. I suggested public stoning - perhaps tar & feathers, the rack or simply, make a statement the more civilized way - banishment?

[Jeff Clark]

Keep the posts limited to the subject matter. You can read and learn here and take from it what you will; personal attacks are not permitted on the forum.

[gary9]

3x3cut is the machine embroidered eagle in the case a real period eagle, what about the metal one also in the box?

Would like a close up of those if they are repros to keep my heads up.

Thanks

[Rick C]

Popping back in for a Saturday review I notice there's been discussion back & forth about the error in including a photo of the reproduction cap eagle with the set offered to me in trade. Would it be possible to see the 'correct' (period) eagle that it's implied was intended to be included? A close up front & back would be nice.

Thanx in advance, Rick C.

[3x3cut3d]

3x3cut is the machine embroidered eagle in the case a real period eagle

give me a couple of days..and hopefully i will have the answer.

what about the metal one also in the box?

this one pictured is a fake..you may have seen it somewhere..



cheers..

[Rick C]

here's my enlisted - front

[Rick C]

and the reverse - (purchased from Kevin Hudson here on the Estand)

[3x3cut3d]

3x3cut is the machine embroidered eagle in the case a real period eagle

sorry for the late reply..is it a period eagle.i will let you make up your own mind





cheers