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    #31
    Shirt

    laurens - We can all agree that there's a good chance this shirt is authentic as presented. However, your comments underscore my initial concerns. The shirt conforms closest to 1938/1939 regulations, due to the 2nd pattern shoulderboard and gold buttons. The kepi ALSO fits the 1938/1939 era with gold piping. HOWEVER, this officer, for some strange reason, removed his gold collar piping, appearing to conform to the new 1940/1941 regulations. ANOTHER POSSIBLE EXPLANATION FOR THE LACK OF COLLAR AND COLLAR TAB PIPING IS THE FACT THAT OBERSTURMFUHRERS PREVIOUSLY WORE BI-COLOR PIPING ON BOTH THE TABS AND COLLAR (1934-1938 era). There IS evidence of previous collar piping on this shirt- Maybe it was bi-color piping, and therefore removed, and he never replaced it with gold. I think that makes more sense than the guy trying to conform to new 1940 regulations. THIS IS SOMETHING I OVERLOOKED, AND WITH THIS IN MIND, I HAVE A LITTLE BETTER FEELING ABOUT THE SHIRT. There are still reasonable doubts about the whole outfit, and this could affect the value if it is sold.

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      #32
      Shirt

      I think it's safe to say that most of us think this shirt has a good chance of period assembly. Something I overlooked - Obersturmfuhrers wore BI-COLOR PIPING on their tabs and on their collars from 1934-1938. It's possible that both the bi-color tab piping and collar piping were removed, and never replaced with the newer, proper gold piping. The presence of gold buttons and gold kepi piping is in accordance with the new 1938 regulations as well. All makes sense so far. MY BIGGEST PROBLEM is with the shoulderboard. This type board came out in 1938, but the braids would have been GOLD. By 1940, for junior officer ranks, ALL gruppes switched to silver braid. So the guy either didn't realize he had the wrong color in 1938, or was adhering to the even newer 1940 regulations for the shoulderboard only. Meanwhile, he was still wearing 1938 style gold buttons, still had gold piping on the kepi (should be silver after 1940), and never bothered to put officer's piping on his tabs. So he adhered to new regulations, but not most of them. Someone post a photo of an SA officer wearing collar tabs without piping. I feel this would have been very rare. His sleeve stripes indicate service since 1929, and he adheres to new shoulderboard regulations, but doesn't bother with rank insignia. SA junior officer's uniforms are very scarce, so when multiple discrepancies are present, one just has to wonder what's up. Officers are expected to set an example, not just wear whatever they want. And yes, I know Sepp Dietrich wore gold SS insignia. The shirt may well be authentic as presented, but I've been involved with SA stuff a long time and I know that MANY SA uniforms are put together, and it's almost always done incorrectly. Original shirts that are incorrect are usually due to regulations overlap, from what I've seen. Perhaps this is one of them.

      Comment

        #33
        shirt

        Sorry for the redundant post. I didn't think the post went through.

        Comment

          #34
          Originally posted by sgstandard View Post
          MR. HUFF - I apologize for the "zero" remark.
          Very well accepted. You obviously know your stuff and your skepticism is certainly the healthy approach to any collectible today. I was wrong to use the term "boulderdash" as it came across as a slam on the facts you were trying to present. As far as my contributions to the hobby...you can find my name on the front pages of Angolia's NSKK; Luftwaffe; Kriegsmarine; Red Cross; and other works. So I "bristled" at the "zero contribution" remark. Hope to buy you a beer someday!

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            #35
            Shirt

            That works for me !! Your comments are much appreciated. SA stuff has a special charm of it's own. Man, how about that Feldherrnhalle kepi just posted?I have an junior officer's early pattern shoulderboard in that wonderful color. Happy hunting my friend.

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