Metal Sign - too new?

[Rick C]

Don't know anything about signs but seen a few posted here that show considerably more wear & tear than this. Alleged to be period but looks way too new. Can anyone comment on having seen one in this kind of condition?

Thanx for any help. Rick C.

[Rick C]

2nd shot

[Rick C]

3rd

[Rick C]

4th

[Rick C]

last - sorry for the blurry photos - not my work...

[sgstandard]

Sign

The fact that the design is stamped into the metal makes me believe it's authentic. The artwork is phenominal. I'm not an expert on this type item, but it sure looks great!!

[Bob Coleman]

I Am Familiar With Two Type Of Period Signs-enameled And Cast. This Piece Is Embossed, Which Is A First For Me. I Would Reserve Judgement On This Piece But I Have My Doubts.

[Rick C]

We seem to have one vote 'for' (due to the embossed fabrication technique) and one neutral, leaning towards 'against' (due to the embossed fabrication technique).

This is being offered to me in trade for a funeral sash. I'm hoping some other folks with experience looking at signs (this appears to be something one might find on an office door to me) might pipe in with some opinions.

Thanx again, Rick C.

[Rick C]

New Photos

Here're some better shots now that this is in hand. Hope someone might revisit this & give some additional feedback.

[Rick C]

the back

[Rick C]

nomenclature

[Rick C]

angle shot showing embossed relief

[Bob Coleman]

After Seeing Your New Pictures, I Must Concur That This Sign Looks Brand New. Thee Is No Wear Showing In The Mounting Holes. Signs Such As This Would Have Been Made To Order, Not Stockpiled Like Other Items In A Warehouse Unless It Has A Provenance Of Being Taken Off The Factory Work Benches, I Would Not Have This Piece In My Collection.

[TobyR]

Since it was me who originally sold the sign (several years ago now) to the person who Rick is trading with, I'd best offer my thoughts on the matter.

Firstly a little history about how I came by the item. I bought it from a friend of mine in northern Germany. He is an antiques dealer and has supplied me with some wonderful pieces over the years. I have never had any problems with any of the items to come from him. He told me that he bought it privately. When he acquired it, it was covered (I can't remember if it was card, a box, or may have even been in a large book). Anyway, this is, he told me, how it had been for 60 plus years. I have no reason to doubt him.

As to it looking too new to be genuine, well, there are plenty of mint pieces (EK's, assault badges, cloth ,etc.) that have survived in excellent condition. Some people only collect mint! So personally I don't feel condition alone is sufficient reason to dismiss it. Also, could it not be the case that the sign was ordered and subsequently manufactured only for the building to be bombed? Far fetched? Maybe or maybe not. There was a war on after all.

Also, were it fake, would we not see countless other examples on the market? Personally I have never seen another example of the Bailiff sign. That said, I have seen several similar signs (i.e. same method of construction) but with a different designation. Only a week ago, I spotted 3 signs on a German forum, one of which was of this type (different designation though), the others were more commonly seen NSDAP signs. I should have saved the pics but forgot and now I can't find the thread! Anyway, the owner believed them original. Incidentally, his displayed wear and tear. If I can find the thread again, I will ask him how he came by it.

Also, in looking through some old Hermann Historica catalogues, I have found 2 signs of a similar type. One was in not so good condition; the other excellent. Both sold and both exceeded their estimates. Neither were for Bailiff though. One was to do with the Post and the other something Kasse (I'll have to find the pics again to check exactly what they said).

Clearly Hermann Historica felt they were genuine, as did the customers who bought them.

Also, don't you think, given the manufacturing costs involved, we'd see far more of these, were they fake? That is to say, a faker would need to make far more than one of each, to get his money back.

When I get a moment, I will scan the ones shown in the HH catalogues and upload them to this thread.

Best,
Toby.

[castle]

on germanwarbooty.com site there is a sign similar to this with the same marking on rear. its in the other german items link...check it out...tom