HJ Shirt c/w original insignia

[Paul70]

That is not correct Debertex, Streifedeinst were white/white I think you might have seen the boards built for if memory serves me right were in"Swing Kids" that were red/white.

NPEA was also white.

I have my doubts the boards are original to the tunic as something does not feel right on it. Why would MP's also be heavysports and shooting instructors? This could be original or built as I have seen alot of original streife boards floating around these days.

Has anyone seen two cuffs worn in original photos or seen the paperwork? In order to wear the cufftitle you had a special document to be carried with your papers.

[Garry M.]

If there are signs of a removed Streifendienst cuff title that would nail the boards to the shirt. If no trace of stitch marks can be found I would agree that there is a possible question mark.

I haven't seen a picture of a boy wearing more than one qualification cuff title but I'm fairly sure I have a set of documents for a Fähnleinführer showing multiple qualifications so this configuration does seem possible. My collection is packed away at the moment but I'll have a dig and get some scans up.

[TobyR]

That is not correct Debertex, Streifedeinst were white/white I think you might have seen the boards built for if memory serves me right were in"Swing Kids" that were red/white.

NPEA was also white.

I have my doubts the boards are original to the tunic as something does not feel right on it. Why would MP's also be heavysports and shooting instructors? This could be original or built as I have seen alot of original streife boards floating around these days.

Has anyone seen two cuffs worn in original photos or seen the paperwork? In order to wear the cufftitle you had a special document to be carried with your papers.

The piping is white, either that or bleached grey (that was a joke in case nobody got it).

As to the straps being original to the shirt, well firstly it comes out of a very long established collection and has most definitely not been recently put together. That's not to say it might not have been modified in the past. However, personally speaking, I doubt it. I have examined the shirt in the area of the straps and I can see no signs of any other straps having ever been present on the shirt.

As to the presence of a Streifendienst sleeveband, well, I can see no traces of there ever having been one. This does of course beg the question why not? Though I don't think this necessarily invalidates the integrity of the shirt, it simply raises a question. That said, can we say with certainty that a Streifendienst sleeveband would have always been worn?

Anyway, as Garry pointed out earlier the Bann Nr. and the Gebietsdreieck do indeed match which has to be a positive sign.

And the attendants sleeve stripes? Personally, I see no issue with these. I do seem to remember seeing a photo of these in wear in the past but can't for the life of me remember where it was. I have previously had the documents for these. In fact, I've had doc groupings that have contained qualification documents for both Gelaendesportwart and Schiesswart, so presumably the subject of such a grouping would have worn both. A slight aside, but you can see SS tunics with more than one cuffband attached. As to members of the "Patrol Service", why couldn't they have been sports attendants also? Either that, or have previously qualified in the role?

Ultimately, there remains so much we don't know.

Anyway, perhaps Bob can weigh in with his thoughts here.

Toby.

[Kurt Meyer]

Nice shirt!!

I like those factory buttons!

Do you have more pictures of the scarf?
I have'nt seen these before for sale So I want to know how they look because i'm looking for one like this to!

Thanks.

Michael

[DEBERTEX]

That is not correct Debertex, Streifedeinst were white/white I think you might have seen the boards built for if memory serves me right were in"Swing Kids" that were red/white.

Hello,

Here are a few pictures found on the net who shows that I think are the 1938 pattern (perhaps the first pattern if a second one would be WHITE/WHITE) of the very rare HJ-Streifendienst boards.
One of the pictures show a homemade upgrade to officers boards.

Best regards
DEBERTEX

[Garry M.]

I don't know the source of those boards but I have my reservations about their originality as Streifendienst items because the modification doesn't make any sense to me. The 7th of October 1938 is a key date concerning the Streifendienst because this is the date when the organisation became officially and directly linked to the SS as the result of an agreement between Himmler and von Schirach. From that date the Streifendienst was seen as a direct recruitment pool for the SS. As I said on another thread, the Streifendienst uniform (on formation of the Streifendienst in 1934) differed in only one aspect: the cufftitle. It seems logical to me that the 7th of October 1938 would have been the perfect time to introduce white/white shoulderboards as the outward sign of an affiliation to the SS. So, back to the boards shown by Debertex: why modify red/red into red/white? Yes, there was always the problem that these new items cost money that people didn't always have but such a modification resulted in a non-regulation item. One of the duties of the Streifendienst was to make sure that HJ members in uniform were dressed correctly. Chastising someone for being incorrectly dressed when you yourself have non-regulation shoulderboards? I can't see it happening. I also can't see any responsible Streifendienst leader wearing those crudely sewn boards at bottom left...

In this picture you can see Streifendienst wearing 1938 pattern general HJ shoulderboards. That can be explained but red/white? Not for me but perhaps someone has a different take on these strange boards.


Edited to add photo..