Looks like it was either offloaded after the fakes were discovered or its on assignment, again after the fakes have been discovered. Either way it dont look good.
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So we have a grouping that was called out, proven to be very questionable and is now being sold without any disclaimer though it originated from one of the most prominent political collectors out there. Just one more reason for me to stop buying and getting the hell out of this hobby. There is no honor, honesty or moral value left in this hobby. This has to be one of he worst, least self policed and most forgiving of outright dishonest practices hobbies out there. My taste for ever buying anything more has gone from excitement to total disinterest. I will keep some of what I have but have lost much of the fire I have had in collecting these items for the last 40 years. My interest in this period is still there but doesn't have to be comprised of owning items from this part of history. It was fun, but the fun has been replaced with caution, mistrust and outright angst at buying anything again.
Fortunately I have a multitude of hobbies to which I can direct my interest that involve far less risk and potential pitfalls than this one. Count me as one of the faithful that has now finally thrown in the towel. It will be a rare occasion for me to buy anything again.
Richard VComment
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David...Richard...this is a very old thread, yet is interesting to re-read To critically consider the accusations made. What was "proven to be very questionable"? A comment was made about the watch makers guild membersip book that supposedly cast doubt on its authenticity. I found the comment to be worthless. So what if Maurice was supposedly president of the guild at the time the book was issued. Does the presidemt of a union not carry a membership card? What a ridiculous comment. The MK edition was called out to have been signed in 1937, whereas the seller points out the inscription is dated 1927. Look at it again and you will see 1927 as I do. No one asked what was the publishing date. I have never seen a red cover edition like those. The paper covers appear to be an early edition. No one likes the signtures of AH. Is anyone here truly qualified to render an opinion from a photo?
The GPB was called out...the enamel disc is a repro, but the base plate with number is original according to a very qualified expert on this forum. Too bad it wasnt restored properly. No one questioned the painting. What about the other items? I simply dont know about the early model Blood Order. I question that. Do you two really think every item of Maurice on that site is fake?Comment
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Agree--the Mein Kampf volumes are the 1st editions. I can tell from the photos that the 2nd volume inscription IMO does not appear to match Hitler's handwriting or signature from that year. The first volume inscription may be okay but that one would require closer scrutiny. The other items (aside from the restored GPB) I haven't researched.Originally posted by JoeW View Post
I remember being offered a Maurice Party Membership book perhaps 13 years ago, along with some other items of his. It appeared to be original with the exception of the photo, which had been replaced in the book with a private period photo of Maurice.
ErichFestina lente!Comment
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Which ever way you spin this, it is wrong. The GBP is not IMO a bad restoration, it is a fraud. The auction house makes no mention of restoration, just states that it is all original and for a price of $9,500
I didnt mention the painting but as it has been brought up I looked at it again. The auction house states "a similar painting by Hitler recently sold in Germany for over $160,000 although it did not have this important personal provenance of coming from Hitler’s closet friend and ally." But yet they only want $95,000 for it, surley with the "important personal provenance" it would be worth over $160,000?
As for the watch, oh dear oh dear, the serial number for the A.Lange & Söhne watch does not match the date of the inscription. The number is 53943, this would place it being made between 1905 - 1915. I would also like to add that IMO the engraved signature does not match Hitlers from the 1933 period.
I am also not the only one who thinks the MK inscriptions are good, so take it up with them as well.
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I am not trying to spin anything.
I value your opinion of the GPB less than Stephen's and he called it as it is. An original base and a poor repro replacement disc. I agree the sale web site has not accurately described the item. If you popped the enamel center out would it be original? "Bad restoration" is an adjective. "Fraud" is a intentional deliberate deception, both a crime and a civil tort. Are you ascribing these actions to the web site dealer?
Questioning the authenticity of the painting by dissing the manner of advertising? Come on, you can do better than that.
Does a watch have to be made the year it was presented? Perhaps it was a keepsake, or bought especially for the presentation.
I am not debating signature authenticity or taking it up with anyone. I only presented my opinion. We only have opinions on this forum, not Experts. You pay for expertise from someone qualified to testify in court.Comment
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three hundred and fifty thousand dollah
Maurice was not a ghost writer for Hiter. It was proven in the 2006 book by Plöckinger - Adolf Hitlers Mein Kampf - that nobody helped him write it, nobody helped him type it, he did it himself from start to finish. The book has a few thousand footnotes btw. although i do understand that most WAFers dont place any importance on a footnote, or on research, on any anything much except a quick chat and a thumbs up.
The poor Sod who falls for this lot, or a piece from this lot will also be unfamiliar with footnotes, research, common sense or many of the "names" mentioned on this thread..
good luck to him, or her.
When you need to jack your sales up, with deliberate historical inaccuracies, lies and waffle, ala-Hollywood rubbish - as this no-name has, then you kinda know things "aint too good" Ghost writer... Romance.... three hundred and fifty thousand dollars
Looks very much like another forum hero and beloved brother of the inner circle has turned coat. As my younger brother used to say.. "No fat of mine" (ja, still trying to figure that one out?)
Why was this thread unpinned a few months ago? It was pinned for years, and then, shortly before the Grand Ghost-Romance-Sale-Show, unpinned? To make it "all just go away"
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Originally posted by JoeW View Post
All good points Joe, but nothing of any substance to prove originality. Merely speculative reasoning. It seems likely the signatures in the books are not genuine or at least suspect, the GBP has had the center replaced and the Stosstrupp BO Badge has a bit of a cloudy provenance too, as was discussed in this thread (coincidentally Jo, this thread was also pinned and now no longer is)
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ht=blood+order
Additionally all the signed copies of first editions presented by AH I have seen were of the first edition of Band 1 rather than Band 2. Anyone else have a signed edition of Band 2 to show that AH presented those too? It is what anyone may want to believe but at its core is a lot of controversy on several of the items, with one clearly having a reproduction part, none of which is mentioned or even vaguely alluded to in the auction lot description. This is either ignorance, with little done in the way of due diligence of the consignor or auction house, or intentional deception by omission, neither of which is admirable when this much money is being asked.
I recall an association member being expelled once a KC he had came into question in a thread on WAF and he tried to auction it off on eBay after it was determined it was not right.
Richard VLast edited by Richard; 06-03-2015, 04:45 PM.Comment
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So to do a quick sum up:-
Messed with GBP (front looks like the 70's - 80's Fuess fake)
Stosstrupp BO Badge that leaves more questions then it answers.
Presentation watch made 20 years before it was engraved and given out.
Suspect signatures in the books AND I might add the signatures of Otto von Oelhafen and Geli Raubal leave a lot to be desired (Shaky hand writting)
AH painting being sold at half price (With super personal provenance)
GBP outed in 2010
Doubts to other items 2013
On sale as 100% original 2015Comment
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I don't know in general if these BO BADGES are original or not but what has always bothered me was the poor detail quality compared to the somewhat later BO medals also designed by Fuess.
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So the two above are obviously not the same badge but are engraved to Maurice. Is one of the above badges the reverse of Bob C's badge or, if not, is his Maurice badge also engraved? We have at least two, possibly three badges ascribed to Maurice. Is Bob H's badge also engraved on the reverse and, if so, to whom? Does it also have a silver content marking?
Richard VComment
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From what I can gather Bob Coleman's badge is one the left, the one on the right was sold by Helmut WeitzeComment
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Hi,
Good to see my picture of the badges comparrison back up here. If you look good at the details you can see it is the same badge, but something appears to have been "done" to the picture(s), resulting in the 900 silvermark to appear at different places and with some possible cleaning. I lack the time these days to go through my library, but think i mentioned the source in the other topic.
I wasn't aware untill a few days ago of the whole Emil Maurice auction, but those who try to defend this group should read up before replying here. Something is definately not right. Like everyone i liked this group when i first stumbled over the topic a few years ago, but as Davids post sums up there are a lot of questions that have emerged since, pointing out to dishonest things going on. Whoever is selling this, it would be wise to adress the issues at hand first before reputations will be ruined forever.
best regards,
GastonComment
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If we look at the backs of the Maurice Stosstrupp BO Badge and then the Hess and Singer badges, all three are different. Very very odd.Comment
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