Originally posted by Michael Miller
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I GUESS STANDING AT THE BARRICADES AND HOLDING THE FLAG ON 9 NOVEMBER, 1923 WOULD QUALIFY HIMMLER FOR THIS BADGE. HE WAS THERE AND PART OF THE PUTSCH. -
Maybe I'm getting confused here, but aren't we talking about that extremely unique, similar-to-but-not-a-Blood Order badge that, per Maurice's account, was specially issued for presentation only to Stosstrupp members? If so, then no- Himmler would not have qualified for that one. He qualified, based on his Putsch participation (in which he held ** A ** flag, the Imperial War Flag, as a member of Roehm's "Reichskriegsflagge" organization, but not any flag associated with the Stosstruppe A.H.), for award of the Blutorden, that much is certain; but I'd like to know more about this other badge, and if there was any ordinance issued listing criteria for award-- or better yet, a confirmed list of recipients.
~ MikeComment
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The badge is really shrouded in mystery. We can find no photos of them being worn and no history of any urkunde for them. The best we have is the letter that was written by Emil Maurice where he mentions the badge.
I cannot understand why Himmler would have one, other than because, by 1933, Hitler had placed his faith and trust in Himmler and Roehm was already losing Hitler's favor. However, this is only speculation.
We only know of the badge being given, by Hitler, on 9 November, 1933, months before the first awards of the blood order. This is known through the Maurice letter.
I look forward to learning of other examples and learning more about this ellusive badge. Perhaps we will, one day, find a photo of the pin back award being worn, between Nov 1933 and April 8, 1934, when the first official Blood Orders were given. It took over a year to award all of them.
Bob HritzIn the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.
Duct tape can't fix stupid, but it can muffle the sound.Comment
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I Hope The Following Quote(translated)from The Maurice Letter Aid In The Understanding Of This Badge. "It Was Orignally Intended That This Badge Of Honor Would Be Awarded To The Men Of The Stosstrupp"Hitler" As Well As Their Political Leaders Who Had Been Found Guilty In The Trial After 9 Novemeber(Hitlerprozess)and Who Had Servered Their Sentence In Fortress Landsberg Am Lech. Maurice Further Elaborates "The Badge Was Intended For These Prisoners(Those Held In Landsberg) And For A Few From The Surrounding Milieu Of The Political Leadership. To The Best Of My Knowledge, About 100 Examples Of The Badge Were Awarded Which Were Then Not To Be Worn Once Awarded."
He Goes On To Say That The Design Could Be Worn In The Form Of A Stickpin.Last edited by Bob Coleman; 09-27-2007, 06:55 PM.Comment
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Mr. Coleman, the quality of the material in this thread is simply astounding. Thank you for sharing it.Comment
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Not that Grimminger being an SA member would have qualified for this badge but it's interesting to note that he stood guard at a bridge a few miles away from the fighting during the Putsch. These badges were for the real fighters during the Putsch. Even if you were a Party member and could not attend the Putsch due to Police interference you could qualify for the BO.Comment
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Bob,
fantastic grouping. I find it nothing short of a miracle that a grouping of this magnitude has survived.
Next to that the history books have to be rewritten on the subject of the Geli / Maurice relationship.Comment
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That is an amazing grouping you got, and all the more interesting because the man was jewish. Thanks a lot for sharing it with us. I had never heard of Emil Maurice before looking at this thread.
JLComment
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Bob...I would like to add my voice to those who have thanked you for posting those historic items on this site. I never would have imagined that they would have survived the last horrible months of the war, let alone the 60+ years after. They are of significant historical value. Did you ever consider a temporary loan to a museum such as the one at West Point or the Smithsonian? It would be great to be able to see them in person.
BobComment
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BOB-Originally posted by Bob Hartman View Post
UNFORTUNTELY, THE SMITHSONIAN IS PART OF THE POLITCAL CORRECT THINKING SYSTEM SO PREVELANT IN WASHINGTON. SEVERAL YEARS AGO, TWO WHITE REICHSLEITER TUNICS THAT HAD BEEN THE PROPERTY
OF MARTIN BORMAN WERE OFFERED TO THE SMITHSONIAN. THEY HAD BEEN FOUND IN THE BASEMENT OF THE BERGHOF, LIKELY LEFT BY SOLDIERS WHO HAD LOOTED BORMAN'S HOUSE AND FOUND BETTER GOODIES IN THE BASEMENT OF THE BERGHOF SUCH AS A H SILVER.
I WAS LUCKLY ENOUGH TO OBTAIN ONE OF THE TWO TUNICS FROM BILL SHEA.
I DOUBT IF ANY U S MUSEUM, MILITARY OR OTHERWISE IS PRESENTLY IN THE POSITION TO DO A DISPLAY ON " NAZI ITEMS." IT IS SAD. HAVING COME FROM THE CHICAGO AREA, I APPROACHED THE 1ST DIVISION MUSEUM IN THE SUBURB OF WINFIELD ABOUT BEING A FINAL HOME FOR MY COLLECTION. I NEVER EVEN RECEIVED A RESPONSE!!!
I FIND MAURICE WAS OF THE MOST CONFLICTED INNER CIRCLE INDIVIDUALS DURING THE 3RD REICH PERIOD. ALTHOUGH, HE FADED FROM VIEW AFTER THE GAINING OF POWER, HE REMAINED ACTIVE IN MUNICH POLITICS UNTIL THE END.
ONE OF THESE DAYS, I WILL HAVE TO SHOOT ONE OTHER PIECE THAT CAME WITH THE COLLECTION. IT IS A SIMPLE SILVER CIGAR BOX WITH HIS INITIAL'S ENGRAVED ON THE TOP. INSIDE, ARE TWO VERY SHORT AND THICK CIGARS THAT EMIL NEVER SMOKED.Comment
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If you know anything about museums and how they operate, you would never ever think about loaning, donating or leaving anything to one. They are the worst possible resting places for historical artifacts...Tom
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btt
Without taking this thread off topic, did Emil ever discuss why a Jew would be close to the NS movement? I have read that Hitler had several Jewish supporters, one was even a young girl he was photographed with many times. I read a letter in a private collection from SD chief Heydrich, in which the SD felt Hitler should be shielded from any Jewish supporters as assassinations had been carried out on German gov officials by Jews.Comment
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TOM-Originally posted by tgn View PostIf you know anything about museums and how they operate, you would never ever think about loaning, donating or leaving anything to one. They are the worst possible resting places for historical artifacts...Tom
THE DONATION WOULD BE ON MY T ERMS WITH A STRICT WRITTEN CONTRACT. I KNOW HWAT YOU MEAN. THE FIELD MUSEUM OF NATURAL HISTORY IN CHICAGO IS A PRIME EXAMPLE. ONE OF THE CURATORS DECIDED IN THE 1950'S TO " CLEAN " THE IRON JAPANESE SWORD GUARDS THAT HAD BEEN PUBLISHED WORLD WIDE. HE CLEANED ALL OF THE PATINA FINISH OFF AS HE THOUGHT IT WAS RUST. IT WAS DONE ON A WIRE WHELL OF ALL THINGS RUINING SEVERAL HUNDRED. WHEN I LIVED IN THE CHICAGO AREA, I WAS SORT OF THEIR UNOFFICIAL CURATOR AND ADVISOR ON THEIR JAPANESE SWORD AND ARMOR COLLECTION. ONE OF THE VOLUNTEERS REALLY SCREWED UP MOST OF THE SWORDS. HER HUSBAND WAS QUITE WEALTHY AND NO ONE WANTED TO OFFEND HER SO SHE WAS LEFT TO DO UNSUPERVISED CURATING. SHE REMOVED EVERY JAPANESE SWORD FROM IT'S SCABBARD AND MOUNTED THE TOGETHER ON STYROFOAM BOARDS, WHICH BLACKENED THE POLISHED BLADE AND CAUSED THE LAQUER ON THE SCABBARDS TO BEGIN FAILING. SHE DID SIMILAR THINGS TO THE ARMOR COLLECTION. I WAS ABLE TO SAVE THE MOST IMPORTANT PIECES BY GETTING THEM IN TO A SPECIAL STORAGE AREA AWAY FROM HER MEDDLING HANDS.
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I KNOW EMIL HAD ANOTHER BROTHER IN THE S S. MAYBE ANOTHER MEMBER CAN ADD TO YOUR QUESTION. MY GUESS IS THAT WHEN YOU ARE THE FUHRER, YOU CAN DO WHAT YOU WANT.Originally posted by ahnenerbe View PostComment
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Museum Inventory
Bob,
I would tend to consider NOT donating such items to any museum in todays world. As a board member and associate curator and one who has dealt with museum staffs for years, I am convinced that whoever is the curator in charge his interests and priorities are the museum's interests at the time. He loans, trades, decommissions and determines where items go.
Trades for items of his interests are usually the rule of the day as most donated property becomes the museum's staff responsibility and their decision is usually what is desplayed and what is disposed of on an individual basis.
TR items today are sometimes viewed as not appropriate for children and are often stored away from public view (or removed from inventory).
JMO,
Ron Weinand
Weinand MilitariaComment
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