A well measured reply... I wonder if we shall see this police panzer wrapper again....
Mike
Mike
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Originally posted by Huntzman View Post
Huntzman, that is one of the more eloquent statements I have read in a while. As I have said countless time before, I don't attack dealers, but I will call out a bad hat. The reason I do it is not for ego, but because I would have liked help like this when I was a 15 year-old kid just starting out in this hobby 30 years ago. No internet, reliable books, etc--"jackals" is an understatement. These guys at shows would tell you what you had was bad (when it was real), then offer to trade your "bad" item for a "real" one (they knew was fake). That is the reason I put out just about every thing I know into black and white on this forum. The value of our collections today is determined by the buyers 20/30/40 years from now. If the youth of today gets burned early (and it is a much more expensive hobby now to get started off in), they are inevitably going to walk away from the hobby.
While I stated in the other thread that the dealer is a nice guy and sells mostly good stuff, there are some bloopers, and these need to be called out, like the W-SS and A-SS General's hats (both of which are put-together Frankenstein visors--made out of fake and real parts).
I don't always blame the dealers--they cannot (like us) specialize in only one area, so I don't begrudge them.
Time to get off my soapbox now....NEC SOLI CEDITComment
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Well... I do hope the new owner of this black wrapper is happy with it. He should have bought the pair. I bet they would have been cheaper if bought together as a set. But, I am certain that someone will buy the other one.
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Did you guys ever stop to think that maybe the new owner knows something you don't? Are all Police collectors on this particular forum infallible? I for one know of two stripped Police panzer wraps that sold for 10K each. What if that base black wrapper is a real green piped Police wrapper. Stripped of all the fake insignia, or was it just the sleeve eagle, then maybe it wasn't such a bad deal after all? I happen to think the base wrapper is original and said so on the Panzer Police overseas cap topic. You guys ridiculed the panzer police overseas cap which I happen to think is good too. On the wrap I don't know Police insignia, so I'll leave the tabs and boards up to you guys. Funny, a very advanced Police collector tried to buy the cap, but it was sold and he said so in a post. No ridicule for him? Same guy that owned the two stripped wrappers. Yes...those wraps were a different manufacturer and had several anomalies. There were probably dozens upon dozens if not over a hundred or more uniform manufacturers.
Perhaps the buyer didn't think the stug was real? Is that even possible to think one and not the other is real on this forum? I personally didn't care for it so there is one person...so than means there might even be two of us.
RichardComment
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Well I will add my 2 cents, take it for what it is worth the Birds on both those wraps are pure fantasy or garbage........ If you ask a question you should not be upset when you get a truthful answer...... As far as that advance police collector wanted to buy the overseas he frequently disagrees with the members here on the police forum, on originality of items.......Originally posted by Richard P View Post
JoeComment
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Joe,
Please reread my post if you are going to post it as a quote. Did I say either of those police birds was real? Or any of the insignia? Did you see my line "stripped of all fake insignia?" Does that not imply the eagle on the black wrap is fake, and didn't I say I did not care for the other wrap?
Exactly what question did I ask that I am upset about the truthful answer? Please elaborate...
I am only writing because members are ridiculing someone who bought the black wrap. I tend to try and see both sides of the issue...something that was not being done on this topic. I have stated several times I am not a police collector, but a panzer collector, and I feel both the black wrap without insignia and the cap with insignia are good. I would love to see the wrap in hand and then I could probably give a definitive answer, as I am only working from the posted photos for my opinion. There are key things in the photos that I do not see on fake wraps. That is the basis for my opinion.
RichardComment
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Richard
I think you might be missing a point here. The opinion was made here and I quote:
I think the key is to understand that what was being stated was that the wraps as shown were bad. Now, does that mean that the wraps themselves were bad. No, no one said that. What they said was that they were fakes based on the configuration as shown with the insignia deemed to be bad.OK, I'll say it... fake Polizei Panzer and Assault Gunner wraps with fantasy eagles.
Your posts are trying to compare apples to oranges. No one offered an opinion on the cloth, the cut or any makrings. just based on the insignia.
You were the one who brought up the actual physical wrapper. The folks here were calling out the insignia, no one called out the wrapper.I for one know of two stripped Police panzer wraps that sold for 10K each. What if that base black wrapper is a real green piped Police wrapper. Stripped of all the fake insignia, or was it just the sleeve eagle, then maybe it wasn't such a bad deal...
Also, Glenn M. wasn't too keen on the the wraps and said so on the original thread without any comments being directed at him.
If I'm a vintage car collector and I purchase a car with reproductions parts I need to know that. It might not have an effect on the originality of the frame, but it certainly does have a bottom line effect on whether this is car is considered "original" or not.
If the wrapper is original and the buyer is happy, great. That does not make the insignia real. If he chooses to strip it and return it to it's original configuration more power to him.
AndrewComment
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Andrew,
How about if Joe responds to me, and then I wil respond to your new post.
RichardComment
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This sounds like a statement that is really a question
" Did you guys ever stop to think that maybe the new owner knows something you don't? Are all Police collectors on this particular forum infallible ?"Comment
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Hi Joe,
I'm really not trying to be difficult. Those two sentences can be taken as actual questions, if someone wanted to answer, although they were rhetorical and intended to promote self examination before we throw that first stone.
Did I receive an answer to them and I just didn't realize it? I am totally serious and I'm just not following why you think I am upset and which truthful answer to which question did I receive? Thanks for responding,
RichardComment
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Gentlemen, At this point I don't find the latest comments/postings constructively going anywhere about the item in question. So lets keep this discussion focused on the facts surrounding this particular item and leave the rest behind. Thanks!Interested in the Gendarmerie - Schutzpolizei - Gemeinden - Feuerschutzpolizei - Wasserschutzpolizei - Etc. Looking For Anything Polizei Related!Comment
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This one has been sitting around on a site for a while. Anyone seen it in person?:NEC SOLI CEDITComment
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2NEC SOLI CEDITComment
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Last pic--these are all there are:NEC SOLI CEDITComment
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No close up of the eagle on the site? I have not seen this before, but it doesn't look promising out of the gate. I'd need a lot more photos to give it a fair shake. These are easy to condemn without a trial, but its nice to go through the exercise of a constructive critique. I only know of one police type field gray wrap that I believe is good, and it's not field gray but made of police green denim. This one does look like it might be done in police colored wool.
RichardComment
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