Sportsbadge confusion

[Richardxyz]

I recently acquired this badge among some other items, but its not an organisation I recognise, in fact I can even understand the monogram, it's smaller than ta DRA or DRL badge has a thin needle pin ( possibly a replacement ) and is not maker marked. Is it post-war or pre-war? I'm confused

[Richardxyz]

Reverse

Any opinions welcomed!

[Gregorio Torres]

I never had seen one like this. The monogram seem to be SLA.
I think this is a post war item as you can see in the needle pin and catch.
I can´t help you any more, I´m sorry.
Regards.
Gregorio

[Andy B.]

Looks like SLA to me too. The only SLA pins I have seen have been on stickpins (about 16mm). They also had a different style of wreath (more oval than round). Isn't the SLA some sort of singing organization?
The back and hardware would make me suspicious of this badge.
Andy B. collecting mini badge stickpins

[chris clark]

never seen the likes and i know a bit about sport badges. the pin set up as already mentioned shouts no way to me on this item

[speedytop]

Hi,

first, I beg your pardon for my bad English.

Second, I have looked over some threads about sports badges.

There is something wrong.
Correct ist, e.g.:
All DRL sports badges w/o swastika are post WWII productions!
It does not exist a 1957 version of sports badges!



The badge shown here is a bavarian one, post war.

SLA = Sport-Leistungs-Abzeichen

Anyone can get it, like the normal DSB sports badge, in Bronce, Silver, Gold and Gold with 5, 10, 15 and more.
But you must be a good sportsman, to achieve the Silver or in particular the Gold level.

One example for long jump, aged 18-29:
Bronce 4.75 meters
Silver 5.25 meters
Gold 5.75 meters

Attached is an award document (my own)


Regards
Uwe

[chris clark]

the badge you show is not war time as you say. interesting that the common make up of such sports badges still exist. the drl with out sawz was made war time and after the war. there are some good threads on this issue on with and without wartime drl badges

[speedytop]

I said "post war" for SLA, and I mean post war.

Bavaria started with this sports badge 1949, and you can get it up to now.


And I say, DRL without swastika is exclusive a post war production (!)


Please show me an original document or a picture before 1945 with a DRL w/o swastika!
Please show me an original award document with a DRL w/o swastika!

Then I will declare, OK, it is made in wartime or before.

But first show me such a document!

Uwe

[chris clark]

speedytop do some research and stop shouting its rude on this sight. i now withdraw from this thread

[speedytop]

chris clark, I'm sorry, that you don't want a discussion about this special subject.

I think, that I had looked for the threads you mean.

And I made several investigations in the last years.

In two specialized german forums nobody could present original documents.

Did anyone in the threads here in this forum present original documents, to back his position up?

Is it rude, to have another opinion than you and others here have, and is it rude, to define one's position?

Regards
Uwe

[chris clark]

speedytop you have come on here in what i feel a rather aggresive manner and having only three posts under the name you now go by would of thought you would of appriciated the forum eticate. there is debate one the non swaz drl's that show the tip of the swaz as post 45. there is debate about the solid backs and cut outs which show the tip of the swaz still showing. on the document front this is an issue on the doc's forum. there was a period of the dra moving onto drl without then with in a short period of time with the swaz added. hope this helps and im sure more input will be added. i have seen doc's with the drl and the doc shows a swaz but the badge not. i will try find this for you.

[speedytop]

chris clarke, you can be sure, that I'm just a new member, but an old collector!

I'm sorry again, but it did not exist a (short or long) period between DRA and DRL with swastika.
(Only a (.) at the end of the sentence, I hope it is less aggressive than a (!).)

And the debate about the solid backs and cut outs is, sorry, irrelevant. I think, it had been optional for the manufacturers.

Can you please furnish proofs?


By the way, to show you, that I'm not really a "greenhorn", please look here:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=187885


Uwe

[Peter J.]

Hi Uwe,

What you're saying is indeed controvercial, but never the less quite logical. As collectors, we all depend on information supplied by ohers. The historical evolution of the Sportabz. has been covered in reference books i.g. Angolia's "For Führer and...". He claims the DRL w/o swastika was introduced in 1933 and the DRL with swastika came 1937. He also says that the control of sports was placed under the DRL in 1933. Another source of info I have, dates this occurance to 1934 and also aknowledge it as a State decoration in 1935. Angolia is known to have been wrong before (we all are from time to time ) and perhaps we've been too quick to accept his story

Let's analyze this logically. After the Nationalists came to power, they quickly absorbed the existing organisations into their own. The adding of a swastika to any symbol associated with these organisations was close to an axiom. So if the Turn- und Sportabzeichen was transformed into the Deutsches Reichsportabzeichen in 1933 (or 1934), why would the swastika be excluded and not be incorperated until 1937 . Another thing that seems to have failed to catch our attention, is the document shown on page 236 in the above mentioned book. If the DRL with swastika was introduced in 1937, how come the document dated 1934 has a badge illustrated with a swastika?

KR
Peter

[speedytop]

Hi Peter,

thank you for your comment.

The document shown on page 236 in the above described book is produced in 1935, exactly in Juli 1935.
You can see it, in the footnote bottom left: 5000. 7. 35. 45.
5000 (the correct number is irrelevant, it could be 8000) paper documents had been produced in July 1935, and I think, that 45. stands for the producer, but that is irrelevant too.

The first document with DRL I found in the Carl-Diem-Archive in Cologne is marked: 10000 4. 35. 13., produced in April 1935, naturally with the swastika.

The last documents with DRA I found, in my own collection and in the Carl-Diem-Archive, are marked 3000. 9. 34. 71 (for women) and 20000. 8. 34. 63. (for men). The end for DRA documents in September 1934.

And now anyone must declare me, in the perfect organized german state, how it is possible, to have thousands and thousands of badges, but no matching document?

I have searched in several folders in the Carl-Diem-Archiv, in many hundred documents in the era 1934, 1935 and later.
No document with a note for a DRL without the swastika!
I have searched in books, in newspapers, in encyclopedias, in codes of law and other publications.

Not at any time I found a hint for the contemporary existence of the DRL badge without the swastika in the time between 1933 and 1945.

Since 1935 you can find original awarded DRA documents with awarded DRL badges with swastika, the old documents were used up several years.

The name of the badge changed 1934 from "Deutsches Turn- und Sportabzeichen" into "Deutsches Reichs-Sportabzeichen", later on it changed to "Reichssportabzeichen".
At first DRL stand for "Deutscher Reichsbund für Leibesübungen", later on it changed (1937) to "Deutsche Reichsauszeichnung für Leibesübungen".


Regards
Uwe

[Ron Weinand]

I tend to agree with the comments on this subject as I have NEVER found a DRL Badge without a swastika from a veteran. In over 350 motel buys working directly with literally thousands of US WWII veterans, I have only found DRA and DRL with Swastika Badges so I tend to agree that a DRL without a swastika was never in existance in the 1933 to 1937 period.
JMO,
Ron Weinand
Weinand Militaria