Waffen-SS Recruiting Poster - Opinions?

[Tom B]

IMO it's ok

[daveward]

Thanks for offering your opinion, Tom! Well, I think we can all agree that the color, size (64cm x 42cm), and detail of this poster look correct. It seems like it all comes down to the "gloss" issue. The lack of reflection might simply be the result of the seller taking photos of this item without a flash, in an area where there wasn't a light source directly overhead. As Max pointed out earlier, this may seem to some like more of a "sheen" than an actual "glossy" finish. Realizing this, I decided to clarify the issue with the seller. I sent two example photos from this thread, and simply asked if the surface of his poster seems to reflect light a little bit, like the other examples in the photos. We'll see what he says!

I apologize if it seems like I'm beating this to death... I'm a scientist, so my natural instinct is to propose a hypothesis about something (such as the authenticity of this poster) and then attempt to disprove that hypothesis. Thus, it may seem like I'm being overly critical at times. Rest assured that I am carefully considering ALL of your comments! I simply want to be as certain as I can be. If I can remove all doubt from my mind, then I'll happily purchase this poster. If I decide that I just can't be 100% comfortable with it, then I'll pass... I appreciate all the help, though. You guys are great!

[daveward]

Here are a few more closeup shots given to me by the seller. These pictures seem to show more of the "sheen" on the orange band, but who knows...







He also provided this little story about how he obtained this piece (though I'm having trouble deciphering it):

"It is possible that someone produces a copy of this original. There were in fact found larger quantities here in Prague at one painter who died, he painted on the blank side of his paintings. I got it, I almost for free directly from his family during the liquidation of the estate, paradoxically, the more they appreciated the most heinous of his paintings. Thus, destroyed many of these posters. This is a true original 100% genuine, full money back guarantee, It is rough, cheap paper. Sorry for my bad English, I hope it is otherwise clear."

[mac-apple]

I'm no expert, but I do know there is one on eBay for sale now ,and on another site if you would like to check those images verse the ones you currently have.. The poster isn't terribly rare or worth a bundle, so I see no reason to fake it.. I collect propaganda posters , and those are quite easy to spot the fakes..

[wolfslair44]

This is actually one I do not own. From the photos below, there would appear to be different variations of the blank ones that have been produced. I do have some worries that some are fake just due to the high volume of how many seem to be available, but really, I don't know which from the three listed side by side below may be real or re-printed, etc. Perhaps they are all real, but some have colour faded to explain the slight differences. Outside of the faked French ones, I can't tell from the conversation which one (or ones) of the blank posters you think are real... can you guys just attach an image to your post as to which one (or indicated ones) you think are authentic.

[TonyS]

I'm no expert, but I do know there is one on eBay for sale now ,and on another site if you would like to check those images verse the ones you currently have.. The poster isn't terribly rare or worth a bundle, so I see no reason to fake it.. I collect propaganda posters , and those are quite easy to spot the fakes..

You must be new to collecting - even $40 Hitlerjugend membership pins and NSDAP badges are reproduced. The fakes can be purchased for $6 from places like Reddicks.

All types of posters have been reproduced - even some of the most boring stuff that was produced during the war and they sell for $10 to $20.

If you can make it for a dollar and sell it for $10 that's a good profit margin....add some aging and you might turn it into a $100 profit......

[daveward]

This is actually one I do not own. From the photos below, there would appear to be different variations of the blank ones that have been produced. I do have some worries that some are fake just due to the high volume of how many seem to be available, but really, I don't know which from the three listed side by side below may be real or re-printed, etc. Perhaps they are all real, but some have colour faded to explain the slight differences. Outside of the faked French ones, I can't tell from the conversation which one (or ones) of the blank posters you think are real... can you guys just attach an image to your post as to which one (or indicated ones) you think are authentic.

Vince and I have made a few posts where we show four pictures side by side (you may have to scroll over to see the fourth one), so I'm assuming that's what you mean. In Vince's post, the first two (the blank and the black-and-white image taken from a book) are considered original. The last two are not. I believe Vince reversed the last two photos by accident, as his description of the pictures makes more sense when you flip the last two photos. In my posts, the first picture is the original from Vince's post, the second picture is a poster I believe to be genuine, the third is the poster in question, and the last one is one of the fakes in Vince's post. Basically, the only blank poster that is questionable among these photos, from what we can tell, is the poster in question. I hope that clears it up!

[daveward]

I'm no expert, but I do know there is one on eBay for sale now ,and on another site if you would like to check those images verse the ones you currently have..

Thanks, mac. I think I have seen all the ones that are currently for sale right now. I have been comparing all the images I have found for this authentication.

If you can make it for a dollar and sell it for $10 that's a good profit margin....add some aging and you might turn it into a $100 profit......

Well said. Fakers are the bane of every collector's existence... SS items are some of the most commonly faked pieces in this hobby, in large part due to how desirable they are. In many cases, the fakes are far more numerous than the originals. If a collector does not extensively scrutinize each potential new addition to his collection, he's playing with fire...

[mac-apple]

You must be new to collecting - even $40 Hitlerjugend membership pins and NSDAP badges are reproduced. The fakes can be purchased for $6 from places like Reddicks.

All types of posters have been reproduced - even some of the most boring stuff that was produced during the war and they sell for $10 to $20.

If you can make it for a dollar and sell it for $10 that's a good profit margin....add some aging and you might turn it into a $100 profit......

I'm not new to collecting, if you think you are going to buy something real for 6$ then you deserve to be taken...The number one 1 rule in this hobby is buy the seller first... The second is if it sounds to good to be true it actually is... There are deals to be had absolutely , but its a fine line we all walk... Most posters are very easy to spot as fakes...

[daveward]

I forgot to include these pictures earlier, but here's another one of these posters that I think is authentic. This poster is not in excellent condition, and the surface has gotten a little "wavy" over time, but it makes the reflective nature of the poster a little easier to see:



Here's a picture of the back of the poster. It sure looks a lot different than the white paper of the poster in question...

[daveward]

Here are some photos of Max's poster that he was kind enough to send to me. Again, we can see that the surface of the poster is reflective.





Max has also informed me that his poster does not show the circular ink rosette pattern that is seen in the closeup photos of the poster in question...

The more I think about it, the less comfortable I feel about the poster... This is the ONLY poster of this type that I have seen that doesn't have a somewhat reflective surface. The difference is pretty clear in the photos. The paper looks rougher than that of other examples, and the backside doesn't look aged at all... Now I've learned that the printing style looks different, which seems like another red flag (although I'd appreciate another opinion on this from the members who actually have this poster in their collection). The story behind the poster also seems a little strange to me... I followed up with the seller to make sure I understood him correctly, and he assured me that a painter in Prague was using the backsides of these posters as canvases on which to paint... I've just got a bad feeling about it. Fakers have proven that they can make a convincing fake of this poster, although they chose to add some obviously modern text. It is not hard to imagine that if they simply removed the text, the fake would be much harder to detect. Just because we haven't seen a fake of the blank poster YET doesn't mean that it's not possible. I really just don't think that I could be comfortable with this piece when it seems so different from the rest...

[Max Wünsche]

Just to clarify, they were rather poor images that were from the dealer I purchased it off.

Mine has the sharp / crisp details in the face as per the one Vince posted earlier.

Whether there were variations in detail over numerous print runs, who knows.

Light bouncing off paper, especially heavily inked areas is not unheard of.



Credit to Tony's website.
.
.
.
.

[TonyS]

I'm not new to collecting, if you think you are going to buy something real for 6$ then you deserve to be taken...The number one 1 rule in this hobby is buy the seller first... The second is if it sounds to good to be true it actually is... There are deals to be had absolutely , but its a fine line we all walk... Most posters are very easy to spot as fakes...

I don't think I made my point clear there - these reproductions soon get mixed in with the real thing and with some aging can become very difficult to distinguish.

The number 1 rule is the item has to stand on it's own merits - not who the seller is or what the story is. And with sellers even some of the best sellers and dealers have sold fakes so I wouldn't be betting on who the seller is. Bill Shea, Bob Hritz, and the Collectors Guild are some cases in point there. Although I'm not certain about Bill Shea anymore after some recent stories......

If most fake posters were easy to spot then we wouldn't be having this conversation about the simplest, cheapest SS poster out there - every one of us would have agreed already. A lot of collectors were taken in by the fakes of this poster with the French text.

With the Luft Helper poster I posted - if I hadn't seen the real one I doubt I would have picked up the other was a fake at the time. No one else pointed it out when it was posted here on the WAF.

Anyway it never hurts to go over these points again. No offense intended.

[FrenchVolunteer]

Hi,

David, i can confirm you that your poster is 100% legit.

The orange color differences between one shot to another is due to the light and camera.

Size, details and color is 100%.

For 250 usd you should take it without any question. This is a bargain, usually this poster is more around 250-300 Euros, sometimes even more.

The ones on EBay and on The Collector's Guild are 100% legit too.

And yes this poster don't have any "SS-Hauptamt" logo on the back.

For the advanced collectors, some gorgeous pictures (from left to right) :

- exclusive picture of a blank original HOCH poster, with the address of the Erganzungsstelle Flandern Der Waffen-SS, confirming that it was made in 1943 (soon in my collection).

- color version of the variant model of Nancy (check the larger orange stripe and font used), this is the one that was pictured in crapy B&W picture from the book of Jean Mabire "La brigade Frankreich" in 1973 - now in the collection of the Mémorial de la Shoah, Paris.



See You

Vince

[mac-apple]

I don't think I made my point clear there - these reproductions soon get mixed in with the real thing and with some aging can become very difficult to distinguish.

The number 1 rule is the item has to stand on it's own merits - not who the seller is or what the story is. And with sellers even some of the best sellers and dealers have sold fakes so I wouldn't be betting on who the seller is. Bill Shea, Bob Hritz, and the Collectors Guild are some cases in point there. Although I'm not certain about Bill Shea anymore after some recent stories......

If most fake posters were easy to spot then we wouldn't be having this conversation about the simplest, cheapest SS poster out there - every one of us would have agreed already. A lot of collectors were taken in by the fakes of this poster with the French text.

With the Luft Helper poster I posted - if I hadn't seen the real one I doubt I would have picked up the other was a fake at the time. No one else pointed it out when it was posted here on the WAF.

Anyway it never hurts to go over these points again. No offense intended.

Very good points indeed!!! There will always be someone out there willing to screw you over .. I've seen entire collections of posters and other pieces all that were fake
, and it feels awful to tell your friend they were taken... There are deals to be had but they are few and far between.. Off to the SOS!!!