Waffen-SS group picture help needed please

[-Decerf-]

Good afternoon gentlemen



Today I received this photo in my mailbox. I would like to ask you if it is possible to get some information about it of any sort ? It seems like the two soldiers at the left have arm shields attached to their tunics ? Is it possible to id the provenance to what group or country they belonged ? Are they maybe ss-freiwilligen troops ? The first photo is the original scan , the second is a "sepia scan" to give the photo a different perspective. Thanks for any information in advance


kind regards


Decerf

[-Decerf-]

close up and reverse

[PHILBROWN]

please dont shoot me down, but to me it looks like a re enactor picture, dosnt look right to me, the faces look very modern,hope im wrong,sorry

[desiro]

The ss decals on the collar look oversized

[padalec]

Certainly reenactor

[Hans Kristian]

,,,OMG...even the pictures are not safe anymore..!!..yes, it truly looks like a bunch of sunday-soldiers.

Hans KristiaN

[lohengrin]

Who knows... the shield looks like Latvian Legion...

[Michael73]

These are Latvians with metal runes
Looks original to me

[juoneen]

Possibly an aged reprint done post war at best. Most all wartime photos have watermarked paper and was not smoothe on the edges.

[MarcRikmenspoel]

The men are Latvians. The conscription practiced there took in older and younger men, after most men of prime military age were first conscripted (or volunteered). Certain units, such as the original Latvian 2. SS-Brigade of early 1943, consisted of these prime-age men, but by mid-1944 the Latvian self-administration and the SS-FHA were taking any men they could get to make up the horrendous casualties the two Latvian divisions suffered.

Latvians were supposed to wear blank right collar patches, but many found this insulting, and so they made their own SS runes by cutting apart supply containers. That seems to be what these men are wearing. By mid-1944, the 15. WGD was wearing the sun & stars collar patch based on the Latvian Army design, while the 19. WGD was wearing the Latvian swastika collar patch.

This suggests the photo is from late 1943 or early 1944, before these official insignia were introduced. The best manpower went into the original brigade, expanded in the spring of 1944 into the 19. WGD. So, my best guess is that this is conscripted men, many on the older side, serving with the 15. WGD in the Velikiye Luki area, circa December 1943 or January 1944, before the retreat to the Velikaya River.

[Mil-Archive]

That picture looks like someone went around the runes and highlighted them extra-white.

I have seen something like that before in an original SS portrait picture where the owner had used black ink to cover up the SS collar tabs.

Years later when the black ink cleaned away the runes stood out as super white, and the black around the collar looked extra-black on account of not being exposed to light for decades (compared to the rest of the picture).

In this case I think it's hard to tell if that is an original or not.

[crowback]

Ss

My first impression of the runes was a camera flash glare but it is outdoors and with your explanation it makes sense that there is a sunshine glare on the metal runes !!! Thanks.

The men are Latvians. The conscription practiced there took in older and younger men, after most men of prime military age were first conscripted (or volunteered). Certain units, such as the original Latvian 2. SS-Brigade of early 1943, consisted of these prime-age men, but by mid-1944 the Latvian self-administration and the SS-FHA were taking any men they could get to make up the horrendous casualties the two Latvian divisions suffered.

Latvians were supposed to wear blank right collar patches, but many found this insulting, and so they made their own SS runes by cutting apart supply containers. That seems to be what these men are wearing. By mid-1944, the 15. WGD was wearing the sun & stars collar patch based on the Latvian Army design, while the 19. WGD was wearing the Latvian swastika collar patch.

This suggests the photo is from late 1943 or early 1944, before these official insignia were introduced. The best manpower went into the original brigade, expanded in the spring of 1944 into the 19. WGD. So, my best guess is that this is conscripted men, many on the older side, serving with the 15. WGD in the Velikiye Luki area, circa December 1943 or January 1944, before the retreat to the Velikaya River.

[Andrew Harris]

please dont shoot me down, but to me it looks like a re enactor picture, dosnt look right to me, the faces look very modern,hope im wrong,sorry

My first opinion was the same!

[George Lepre]

Hi all -

Marc is correct here, as he usually is.

Many foreign volunteers did not like wearing blank or foreign non-runic SS tabs. When I interviewed Ukrainian volunteer Orest S., he showed me a photo of himself wearing SS runes. Also, I have seen the Soldbuch of a Hungarian volunteer who is clearly wearing metal runes in the identity photograph.

George

[panzer1432]

Agreed ! The tunics are certainly late war. Check out the shoulder straps.

Mike