Father and son?

[Dave Danner]

I don't know SS uniforms well. Am I right in supposing that this is a pic of a proud concentration camp guard and his boy?

<img src="http://www.berliner-auktionshaus.com/katalog/kat_41/picture/3049.jpg">

Looks like a Totenkopf on the right collar, war merit medal, WW1 wound badge. Rank is Rottenführer?

Dave

[Jeff S]

fake photo...

Sorry Dave, but that is a fake photo. It is another in what I call the CCC series. CCC standing for "creme coloured column", this one actually has the hanging covering the normal column. The backgrounds are identical(1 of 2 backgrounds) on all of them. These aren't even made from original negatives. They were taken in the last decade and artificially aged. I've been seeing them in the states for about 5-6 years.

If this had been a real photo however, I believe you would have been correct.

Stay away from this series folks!

[Denis]

Hi Dave & Jeff
The SS is a Unterscharführer (junior NCO). Yes the collar patch depicts a Totenkopf.
Jeff : what is this "creme coloured column" ? I don't understand what you want to mean.
Regards
Denis

[Jeff S]

photos...

Denis, I'm sorry, I didn't explain myself well. The same individual that made the pictured photo, made many other postwar fake photos. Then he artificially aged them. Many of them had this wavy curtain in the background. Many others had a creme coloured column(pillar) in the background. Others still had a plain background.

You can see other examples here. Note the top two photos on this page, compare to the background of this photo.
Regards,
Jeff



<A HREF="http://personal.bna.bellsouth.net/bna/v/a/vampire1/photosite.html" TARGET=_blank>Click here to see examples. </A> <P> <P>
</b> <P> <P>

[Sonny]

Fake pics

Jeff, do you mean that these people are present day models who dressed up in ss uniforms and had there picture taken. If so thats unbelievable. sonny

[Jeff S]

Sonny,
That is exactly what I'm saying. The funny thing is I've seen photos of the same guys in completely different branch uniforms. One guy I have seen in SS, LW, and KM uniforms. All highly decorated.

Printing original negatives, then artificially aging the photos is bad enough, but some jokers take it further and create the photos in fake uniforms. It definitely makes me mad. Boneheads are out there.

Jeff

[Mark S.]

Wow...thats really something. Who would have thought?

So whats the motive behind these fake pictures? Are SS portraits so rare and expensive that they must be faked? Was someone trying to pawn off fake uniforms as real?


This is so out there, its almost hard to fathom. The same guy in different uniforms...thats almost funny...almost

[Sebastian Bianchi]

Argh, crap.

At the local shows here (NJ, PA) a certain dealer with a German accent that sets up two tables at every show. She is an older lady with glasses, often accompanied by her son. I learned early on in my collecting career that her tables was completely full of fakes. Her prices weren’t bad though, and thinking I knew what I was doing I was tempted to find the occasional “good one”. Thankfully, I never did.

Still, thinking that I was safe with pictures, I got a couple from her. And I really mean one or two, that’s it. Thank go, because here is one of them,

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/camp...nish_cross.htm

(scroll down almost to the bottom).

That picture will be labeled fake. Oh well, there’s a few dollars I’ll never see again.

Thanks for the info, very interesting, and a shame all at the same time.

Seba

[Jeff S]

photo fun...

Seba, Mark,
It is sad isn't it? The lengths people will go to to make money. Seba, you are correct. that Spainsh Cross photo is another one I've seen in piles. I'm sure you noticed the identical background, and couch even!
Mark, there is definitely enough profit in fake photos for someone to go to the trouble of making them. I would say there is even a lot more margin in photos then in badges. I see good SS photos routinely go for more then $100. And common ones on average go for $25 or more.

Just like any other collectable, if people know the fakes are out there, hopefully they won't get burned.

Jeff

[Jos L C]

I'm gonna be sick,
Who is providing all those uniforms and who is behind all this and who is gonna kill that old lady with her son ????
Even the cheapest things turn out to be fake nowadays,isn't it time for us to blow up the whole MOB that's behind it ?????
I'm in !!!!!

Regards,
Jos.

[Bill Gracie]

G'day Jeff,

A very interesting thread. I've being going through all my photo postcards and I must say I now wonder if any of them a faked. I have seen the photo of the SS man ( First photo) on your website

http://personal.bna.bellsouth.net/bn...photosite.html

up for auction on eBay in Germany , if my memory serves me well it sold for something in the vicinity of 40 - 50 DM , to think I was going to bid.

Is the paper stock original ie, wartime photo paper. I have some photos that I will post later which NOW concern me. Another field of collecting which will now require a libarary so you can Identify the people in the photos.

Regards,
BillGracie

[Akira Takiguchi]

In Japan there has been a rumor that these SS photos were made postwar by HIAG for MIA searching, but a funny thing is that looking at the uniform details (large pocket, etc., etc.) the uniform collectors say that "Gee, we will never buy these kind of uniforms if I'm offered!"

The only hope was that these were printed from original glass negatives one photo studio kept after the war (to explain the same background) ...

One reason I do not collect portrait photos unless they come in a large grouping or of a known personality...

[W. C. Stump]

IMPORTANT MESSAGE ABOUT THE SO-CALLED FAKE PHOTOGRAPHS

Gentlemen:

Please read the following message from my good friend Otto Spronk. He may enlighten everyone about the photo's being labeled as fake.

"The so-called fake-photo's in this thread are not as fake as is stated by some members. Many of those photo's come from an Austrian dealer named Szabo. Since some 15 years he is selling very nice uniform and portrait photo's from his grandfathers estate, who owned a photo-studio in Austria, he has thousands of original glass-negatives from which he is printing on original old photo-paper. Szabo is not in the business of faking photo's, but simply supplying the collectors world with fantastic original uniform-photo's, newly printed. He sells his photo's on shows in Germany for a very reasonable price. I bought many photo's from him for a price around $5.00 each. But if dealers are getting their hands on these photo's (remember they are printed on original old photo-paper) the prices will go up fast. So don't blame the supplier but the dealer !! It is true his photo's are popping up at dealers, shows and auctions for awful prices. Most of the time it is the lack of knowledge from the collector himself who is paying these prices for repro-photo's. I have met Szabo on a military show in Krefeld Germany some 10 years ago and he seems a nice guy with a suitcase full of goodies. I don't have his address in Austria. He is sometimes visiting shows in Germany.

Otto Spronk"

[Akira Takiguchi]

OK, this is the first time I heard about the name (Szabo), and I'm partially relieved to know that my hypothesis (estate of a photo studio) is now backed up.

I really need to know the name of a Ritterkreuztr&auml;ger in the photo that "the Photo King" Robert Noss shows in the GD forum thread:

http://daggers.infopop.net/2/OpenTop...3&m=3373016193

I have always thought that this photo has the same nature, and if this Ritterkreuztr&auml;ger is properly identified, I can believe that all these stuffs are not exactly fakes, but just postwar prints

[Mark S.]

Jeff-

Was the photos you have seen of "One guy I have seen in SS, LW, and KM uniforms. All highly decorated. " in the column/curtain format?

If so, I think that blows the Szabo connection.

What we need to know is if Mr. Szabo is responsble for the types presented in this post, or if it another type all together. I find it entirely plausible that old negatives could be made into new prints-on old paper-but are these them?

Fantastic thread!