Helmut Wick RK Citation

[stevie e]

Have to agree with last post. Also, he died about 53 days after the award of his EL, pretty quick for the photo to be taken, cards made and distributed. Does anyone have publication dates for cards - Rohr, Hoffmann, etc.

The Rohr Card is well known and there ARE signed examples of which this isn't one of them I'm afraid. I am attaching an original signed Rohr card which is a Rohr rather than Verlag Rohr logo as in this case - (which I haven't seen before with a Wick) - although a signed example may well exist. There is a long standing belief that the Hoffmann card of Wick came out after his death. I am not convinced as I have a signed Hoffmann that looks good to me and it matches documents signed by Wick and also a couple of other photo cards of his that I own. However, in all those other cases they are signed with surname only as with documents. There is a also a rumour that comrades signed some cards and photos in his style in the days after he went missing over the Isle of Wight. There is no evidence of this, but it's possible as they believed he was alive and a prisoner for up to 2 years after he went missing. He was though, never found and remains MIA to this day. No dates of release of any of the Hoffmann or Rohr postcards exist to my knowledge so no-one knows when the Hoffmann came out for certain. I have seen a few crude fakes of the Hoffmanns similar to this though....The original known signature of Helmut Wick in full is attached.....on a Rohr card - I also own one of these...Steve

[Larry deZeng]

There is no evidence of this, but it's possible as they believed he was alive and a prisoner for up to 2 years after he went missing. He was though, never found and remains MIA to this day.

What, chained to the wall in some farmer's basement? Please excuse my skepticism and sarcasm, but this sounds like some sort of conspiracy theory dreamed up by a bunch of teenage potheads sitting around in their high school locker room lavatory smoking joints. Wick was MIA from the day he went down on 28.11.40 and was not held by anyone. All circumstancial evidence points strongly to him being pulled under by his 'chute after either bailing out or attempting to exit his Bf 109 E-4 after ditching. The Wick case has been investigated more times than I can count, both publicly and privately. I remember reading well-researched articles about his disappearance in RAF Flying Review as far back as the early 1960's, and I know of several postwar Air Ministry and BRD investigations as well as at least one IRC investigation. There would have been no motivation for anyone to hold him in secret. If anything, the British government would have been proud to parade him before the cameras and say, "look who we have."

[stevie e]

What, chained to the wall in some farmer's basement? Please excuse my skepticism and sarcasm, but this sounds like some sort of conspiracy theory dreamed up by a bunch of teenage potheads sitting around in their high school locker room lavatory smoking joints. Wick was MIA from the day he went down on 28.11.40 and was not held by anyone. All circumstancial evidence points strongly to him being pulled under by his 'chute after either bailing out or attempting to exit his Bf 109 E-4 after ditching. The Wick case has been investigated more times than I can count, both publicly and privately. I remember reading well-researched articles about his disappearance in RAF Flying Review as far back as the early 1960's, and I know of several postwar Air Ministry and BRD investigations as well as at least one IRC investigation. There would have been no motivation for anyone to hold him in secret. If anything, the British government would have been proud to parade him before the cameras and say, "look who we have."

That isn't what I said or meant....Wick was a massive hero at the time he was shot down. Goering even sent a seaplane to look for him. His wife was told he was a prisoner and even two years later still believed he may be in Canada with other LW POWS. Goering had telephoned his Wife with news that he was in Canada following a US newspaper report late January 1941. He's was shot down over the Isle of Wight and killed alright and I wasn't suggesting otherwise...anyway, here is a pic of him signing photos at his desk after he became Kommodore of JG2.....as a holder of the Oakleaves...

[Larry deZeng]

My comment was not aimed at you, Steve, it was aimed at the rumor. That's a good summary you provided of the aftermath. Most of the postwar investigations ventured that the Reichsmarschall and the Nazi propaganda machines attempted to capitalize of Wick's loss when they knew perfectly well that he had not survived his downing over the Channel.

[stevie e]

My comment was not aimed at you, Steve, it was aimed at the rumor. That's a good summary you provided of the aftermath. Most of the postwar investigations ventured that the Reichsmarschall and the Nazi propaganda machines attempted to capitalize of Wick's loss when they knew perfectly well that he had not survived his downing over the Channel.

No worries. Thanks Larry. I am attaching a signed Hoffmann I own. Before eveyone jumps down my throat, this one is different to the usual fake Hoffmann I have seen. The ink is silvered, has nib marks etc under a scope but, importantly is very close indeed to a signed document I found which is signed in the same way. It is also very similar to another signed card of Wick I bought from Detlev a year or two back. The Hoffman's I have seen have usually been full signature and obvious fakes. I will post it and also the document, which Wick signed as a declaration of intent as the new Kommodore of JG2 in October 1940 when he was appointed. He was by then a Major, with Oakleaves and regularly signing photos (see my previous post). I will also post the other card with similar signatture....it's interesting....I believe both the signed Photocards to be genuine having seen the document....fakes are usually pretty obvious in my experience. This one isn't....

[stevie e]

and here is the signed document....

[Wittmann04]

Hello chaps, can someone of you tell me more about Rudi Pflanz? I recently obtained 2 letters of him adressed to a nurse who took care of him after he was wounded. In the bios of pflanz i found in internet there is no wounding mentioned.

Thanks in advance

Nic

As i am on a buisness trip right now i can not response very fast.

[stevie e]

Hello chaps, can someone of you tell me more about Rudi Pflanz? I recently obtained 2 letters of him adressed to a nurse who took care of him after he was wounded. In the bios of pflanz i found in internet there is no wounding mentioned.

Thanks in advance

Nic

As i am on a buisness trip right now i can not response very fast.

Rudi Pflanz.... He was KIA following year on the 31 July 1942, in combat with RAF Spitfires. He succeeded in shooting down one but was then shot down and killed in Bf 109 G-1 (W.Nr. 10318) “White 1” over Berck-sur-Mer in France. He scored 52 victories all in the West of which 45 were RAF Spitfires. He was Wick's wingman during the battle of Britain and shot down Fly Lft John Dundas after he shot down Wick. He circled for some time after Wick bailed out calling on the RT that a Spitfire was down in the hope that the British would send out a Rescue boat. He nearly ran out of fuel himself and crashed on the French beaches. Hw was awarded the
Ehrenpokal (24.07.41)
Deutsches Kreuz in Gold (16.07.42)
Ritterkreuz (01.08.41)

[stevie e]

Hello chaps, can someone of you tell me more about Rudi Pflanz? I recently obtained 2 letters of him adressed to a nurse who took care of him after he was wounded. In the bios of pflanz i found in internet there is no wounding mentioned.

Thanks in advance

Nic

As i am on a buisness trip right now i can not response very fast.

Here's another great pic of Pflanz alongside other JG2 pilots - he's on the left of the picture. Centre (third from left) is Joseph Wurmheller, also KIA on 22.06.44 near Alençon just after D Day when his FW190 collided with his wingman in combat with Allied fighter aircraft. Wurmheller was a well known Ace and winner of the Swords. He scored 102 victories (93 in the West including 20 four engines and 56 Spitfires) of JG53 & JG2 he was awarded:

Deutsches Kreuz in Gold (21.08.42)
Ritterkreuz (04.09.41)
Eichenlaub (13.11.42)
Schwertern (24.10.42)

[Wittmann04]

Thanks, the letters where also together with a signed photo of him. I will post a scan of it when i returned home.

Nic

[stig1958]

Helmut Wick signature

What do the forum members think of this Helmut Wick signature, I think it is genuine it compares quite well with others I have seen, it seems from the break in the ink flow of the signature that he was running low on ink, as Wick probably sat down and signed a few others at the same time? (There is another Wick Rohr signed card that is on the Wehrmacht forum that was probably signed at the same signing session.

Dennis

[frankandfrank]

A cheap fake postwar signature !
And not a good one.

[Jeremy]

Crap

Fake factory.

[stig1958]

Wick signature

Thanks for your opinions, but I totally disagree there is absolutely no way anyone can definitely say any Wick signature is fake because no one really knows, just saying fake, crap, is neither convincing or forensic in its analysis, no doubt you are going to say you have an original signed Wick, but who decided yours are original certainly not Helmut Wick! It's pure guess work on your part, try to be a bit more constructive in your replies.

But thanks anyway for your replies I always enjoy them

Dennis

[Hank C.]

Thanks for your opinions, but I totally disagree there is absolutely no way anyone can definitely say any Wick signature is fake because no one really knows, just saying fake, crap, is neither convincing or forensic in its analysis, no doubt you are going to say you have an original signed Wick, but who decided yours are original certainly not Helmut Wick! It's pure guess work on your part, try to be a bit more constructive in your replies.

But thanks anyway for your replies I always enjoy them

Dennis

If you don't want bad news, don't ask. If you're happy with it, fine. But if experienced members give it a thumbs down, don't get all defensive and indignant. You asked for it.

Hank