Photo from Dachau Liberation?

[PZIV]

MISTAKE! BY WHOM? WHEN THE LIBERATING TROOPS CAME IN TO DACHAU AND FOUND NOT ONLY THE TORTURED INMATES BUT THE BOXCARS FULL OF DEAD PRISONERS, REASON NO LONGER WAS A CONSIDERATION. THE GUARDS ON DUTY WHETHER THEY WERE PART OF THE PROCESS OR LAST MINUTE REPLACEMENTS PAID THE PRICE FOR THE INSANE POLICIES OF THE LEADERS OF THE 3RD REICH. I HAVE NEVER EQUATED THE AVERAGE WAFFEN S S MAN WITH THE CAMP GUARDS. THOSE WHO SERVED IN THE EXTERMINATION OF MILLIONS OF INNOCENT PEOPLE DESERVED ROUGH JUSTICE. IF I WAS WITH THE 45TH WHEN THEY ENTERED DACHAU K Z, I DOUBT I WOULD HAVE ACTED ANY DIFFERENT. IT IS EASY TO BLAME THE SOLDIERS OF AN ERA GONE BY WITH CURRENT P C STANDARDS. I KNEW A MAN AND BOYHOOD NEIGHBOR OF GERMAN AMERICAN DESCENT WHO WAS THERE AND A PART OF ALL OF THIS. HE HATED HIS ANCESTORS AND NEVER FORGAVE OR FORGOT UNTIL THE DAY HE DIED.

I do not think you are seeing my point. I will not comment on yours until you can comment without being obnoxious (if, of course these all caps were on purpose).

[Bob Coleman]

K-98 "man"
Sorry This Is The Way I Write. I Also Will Not Debate A 16 Year Old.

[PZIV]

K-98 "man"
Sorry This Is The Way I Write. I Also Will Not Debate A 16 Year Old.

If this is the way you write, why is it you do not write this way now? I like the way you point out the irrelevant topic of my age and poke fun at my name. I'm sure you will have the last word. Go ahead.

[VtwinVince]

This sort of thing was going on all the time. Let's face it, in the spring of 1945 it was open season on Germans. Millions were killed using various means, by all of the so-called victors. My uncle was held at Dachau for a year as a pow, and he told of piles of dead, not Jews, but German pow's. And the conditions in the camps on the Rhine were deplorable, but hey, they were just a bunch of Nazis, right? People will always find good reasons to engage in genocide, and we've learned nothing today.

[gew98]

This sort of thing was going on all the time. Let's face it, in the spring of 1945 it was open season on Germans. Millions were killed using various means, by all of the so-called victors. My uncle was held at Dachau for a year as a pow, and he told of piles of dead, not Jews, but German pow's. And the conditions in the camps on the Rhine were deplorable, but hey, they were just a bunch of Nazis, right? People will always find good reasons to engage in genocide, and we've learned nothing today.

Open season on the germans you say..... what a maroon !.
Would you like to corroborate the stroy of piles of dead german POW's you mention..... and don't quote that propagandist James Bacque either.

[gew98]

Things like this are going on today. talk to some of the kids serving in Iraq.
Steve

You must be talking to those "phoney soldiers" like Jesse Macbeth. Having had three good friends whom stayed in uniform that served in OIF ( two of them went twice ) , to then hear stories of the likes of which you imply make you sound like ...well lets be kind and you make that connection.

[gew98]

Not to argue w/the PC of today vs. the reality of the situation, but using this logic, every German soldier had the right to MURDER any American or British aircrew member for the leveling of his cities and the murder of (some say) a million innocent men, women and children by the relentless, 'round the clock bombing of their cities...which arguably did no real, lasting damage to war production.

Murder is murder whether done by an SS guard or "liberating" US Soldier. Firing squads against men who just happened to be there when the US soldiers arrived is still murder.

Let's ask the parents, wives, sons or daughters or siblings of these people who did not come home, whether the circumstances warranted their family member's deaths?

You do realise alot of allied airman that survived the downing of their aircraft were murdered when captured by those kind germans that thought they had a right to get some payback.
Murder is murder you say.... love to see you in one of those GI's boots and see and smell what they did and not do what they did.

Let's ask the siblings et al you say ? ..... you mean the humans slaughtered by those loving SS... oh no I forgot you mean those SS innocent conscripts...yeah... OK righto.

[Scott Powell]

Not to argue w/the PC of today vs. the reality of the situation, but using this logic, every German soldier had the right to MURDER any American or British aircrew member for the leveling of his cities and the murder of (some say) a million innocent men, women and children by the relentless, 'round the clock bombing of their cities...which arguably did no real, lasting damage to war production.

a large percentage of americans shot down over germany were killed by the civilians. it wasnt uncommon to lynch an airman,and the women would take turns holding the airmans legs and swing with the body. another very common practice was to take handfulls of dirt and shove it down an airman's throat,then get a stick,and pack the dirt down so the airman suffocated. it certainly was viewed as 'open season' on captured airmen

it's a pity the prisoners couldnt extract more paypack on the cowardly SS guards after the liberation of the camps

[Akira Takiguchi]

Not that this discussion is utterly fruitless, but this does not belong to this forum. Where can we continue?

[Bob Coleman]

Takiguchi San-
I Do Not See Any Thing Positive That Can Develop From This Thread. Arguements About Atrocities Will Never Be Solved.
In The End, History Is Written By The Victors And That Is What The Masses Want To Hear. May I Suggest We Close This Thread And Move Forward. In The Horrors Of War, No Side Is Blameless.

[Hank C.]

Takiguchi San-
I Do Not See Any Thing Positive That Can Develop From This Thread. Arguements About Atrocities Will Never Be Solved.
In The End, History Is Written By The Victors And That Is What The Masses Want To Hear. May I Suggest We Close This Thread And Move Forward. In The Horrors Of War, No Side Is Blameless.

I second all that.

Hank

[Steve Sherlock]

Well, before this thread is closed, there is something that needs to be said.
It’s about 1:30 a.m. California time as I write this, and I assume that Moderator Mr. Coleman must be sleeping the sleep of the ages, knowing that he has made this world a better place in which to live by heroically vanquishing the threatening voice of a 16 year old who has done nothing more than to point out some contradictions inherent in the perennial human conflict.
As opposed to the "agreeing to disagree" attitude to which most of us here on the WAF subscribe, along with intelligent discussion of the issue in question, Mr. Coleman has seen fit to display an intolerance for those who dare raise the contradictions of what is "right" or justifiable in warfare, and the concomitant "collateral" (to use a now popular term) effects of such conflict. Looking at them with an objective mind, Mansal’s comments reveal a serious concern for a certain aspect of the more unsavory aspects of the Second World War. A cursory review of the comments in this thread reveal several other posters who, essentially, are compatible with Mansal’s position that the murders of Dachau guards was not right. That’s a valid understanding, but that’s not to say other opinions are not valid, either. I’m not going into the meat of that argument, as that’s not the point of this post. The point of this post is that, in the spirit of what should have been an open discussion, the moderator abused his position to suspend a young man who was guilty of nothing more than raising some questions on a controversial issue in which many others participated with differing positions.
For the most part I stay out of these contests, but here I have to make an exception because, to cut to the chase, what’s going on here is someone with some authority on this forum (that would be Coleman) "pulling rank," and clearly using Mansal’s age (see post #32) as a reason for not intelligently responding to Mansal’s inquiry, and instead suspending him from the WAF. That’s BS;, in BIG CAPS!!! Given the generally accepted rule the a response in all capital letters means I’m YELLING !!!, Mansal was not out of line to suggest that if that is what Colman meant to convey, his response was obnoxious (meaning offensive). Mansal called Coleman on it, and Colman, abusing his authority as moderator, suspended Mansal. My God!! So many people have made so many worse and offensive comments than Mansal, and have not been given so much as a reprimand, never mind a suspension. This is soooo lame!! One should not be punished for having in open, inquiring mind such as Mansal.
What gets me in this case is that time and again I’ve seen people on this forum get down on Mansal because of his age. That suggests when these people are confronted with intelligent inquiries which challenge their own points of view, and they can’t debate them on an intelligent level, then they pull out their trump card of age, always pointing out Mansal’s young age as a reason why his point of view is invalid. That BS!!. I’d stack him up, intelligence wise, against a good number of the older folks here on the WAF. What really seems to tee people off here is when they pontificate their point of view, and Mansal challenges it with a simple short question, they get flustered and feel impelled to discredit him on the basis of his age. I’m 52 years old, and have lived long enough to know that age, by itself, is no guarantee of wisdom or intellect. As far as I’m concerned, anytime someone brings their opponent’s age into question, that discredits entirely the former’s argument.
No one should be suspended for what they have said in this thread. But for the good of the forum, Colman, you should seriously consider giving up your position as an objective moderator.

Steve Sherlock