2 Negative Filmrollen Tank

[Doug Kenwright]

Rove, could you write down what the code is, including any symbols, that you see along the edge of the strip?...these books are killer in length!..

We can be certain from the 'factory' books, which date as far back as 1930

[Karl B]

Hi

Not within the current discussion.

I collect negatives and am always willing to learn new things. How would the images have been transfered from the old stock onto the new?

Would there have been some deterioration in the image so when they are developed the photos are not as clear?

Cheers

Karl

[rove]

please - dont think always they are fakes

maybe i should not be forced to show they are originals so if there are any facts which show that they are new i want to see them.

now its started a discussion how the old pics came to the "new" stocks which are not new - my opinion

hope my english was understand what i mean

[rove]

the iss film is only described with agfa isopan iss

( i beginn to hate to touch them always with my finger)

the other one - the kodak has following codes

P 8301 9 9 Kodak Panatomic - this is repeating the complete length

[Doug Kenwright]

Hi Rove..not sure i am following you here

"maybe the role part of the two soldiers is little bit irritating?"

it is possible they (and i..) are wrong, the codes will tell the tale..

The transfer of old pics to new/old stock is not unheard of, and the only way to tell is to print the pictures and see..they are doing this in Europe, and only recently, 1500 'original' negatives were found to have been forged this way..it has been suggested to me that they are laser imprinted but i am not 'up' on that aspect of transfer..

I hope that yours are real, it would be a good find, but from the code i can see on the film, it would be later than 1945.

Also, panatomic stock was used later than 1950, in fact it was being produced into the 1970's in Mexico and South America for their domestic markets..

[rove]

so - it is not clear for you how old they are. you only think they are new. ok
you shouldnt be always so frightened about copies

if they are copies, my unluck, but i hope and think - they are ok.

as i said, i will ask tomorrow in the studio, they are known in vienna as a named studio for old photos.

maybe you know it earlier what the code means

[rove]

http://www.taphilo.com/Photo/kodakfilmnumxref.shtml

but there is no code like mine

[Karl B]

Hi

Rove, sorry if I was misunderstood, I am not saying yours are fake. Just asking to educate myself in what appears to be an increasing "fake" market in photos. My opinion.

I have a small set of second generation negatives, bought as such and I find the developed images are not as clear as my original negatives.

When yours are developed post a few.

Cheers

Karl

[rove]

sorry - my english - sorry

i dont want to agressiv anyone here, please

i dont want to hear they are original, i will see it tomorrow
of course i would be lucky if they are, if not - also ok

the negatives are sharp, i will see how the pics will become

[Doug Kenwright]

ahh..here's some interesting news..it seems that the same codes were used in the 50's and 60's in the South American facilities as were used in the Kodak facility in France during the war..in fact, other than a certain lack of some symbols, the number sequencing is the same..perhaps it was easier to just keep on with same system post war in non traditional markets..it could also explain why the film has the same look that modern photographers are used to!

Are your subjects in France?

[Doug Kenwright]

P 8301 9 9 Kodak Panatomic -produced Lille France to 1942 also as:
pp-1 8301 99
Pq-1 8301

P 8301 9 ? Kodak Panatomic-produced Mexico city, Mexico- Bogota Colombia to 1965 and again from 1966-1974

Source: Stewarts film stock and st. paper guide (for industry ) pg. 67
Bishop and son Ny, Ny..

[Ron C.]

Hi

Not within the current discussion.

I collect negatives and am always willing to learn new things. How would the images have been transfered from the old stock onto the new?

Would there have been some deterioration in the image so when they are developed the photos are not as clear?

Cheers

Karl

I take no position on whether these instant negatives are copies or not.....I don't know; however, I merely try to respond to Karl's question about image transfer. I am sure professional labs have a more sophisticated method; however, it can be done at home with copy equipment similar to a bellows attachment for close up photography that has a slide mount device, or film strip copier. It can also be done with such a device mounted to the front of a Micro (name Nikon uses) or Macro lens. The original negative strip, or slide, is placed in the device and the device is pointed toward a nice even light source and the shutter fired, and so on for each frame......unload your camera when finished and you are ready to have the film developed........new negatives copied from old negatives. If done properly there will not be much loss of quality. One tip off though is if the old negative strip has surface scratches, you may see them in the new negative image.........but they won't be scratches actually on the surface of the new film.

Ron

[SurvivingPanzer]

P 8301 9 9 Kodak Panatomic -produced Lille France to 1942 also as:
pp-1 8301 99
Pq-1 8301

P 8301 9 ? Kodak Panatomic-produced Mexico city, Mexico- Bogota Colombia to 1965 and again from 1966-1974

Source: Stewarts film stock and st. paper guide (for industry ) pg. 67
Bishop and son Ny, Ny..

If I'm not mistaken that is a little bit of proff that the Kodak roll is war period. If there were a ring of forgeries from South America someone else would have these prints.

[Doug Kenwright]

Surviving panzer..yes, that's a good sign..the problem with forgers is that they are damn clever, and produce to deceive, however, if the subject matter when printed proves to be in France, that narrows it down some..

[rove]

Doug - THANK YOU

the soldiers wear the pab and the ek1 already, the film box is signed with 1941

all indices for a france, pzkwIII on some pics