Handwriting Changes in Wartime Documents

[Adem]

Posted at the request of Stefan Körlin.
<tt> "These Feldpost letters are from a common Waffen SS man that I received from the family. He was only a recipient of the EK2. In the following examples of 3 letters and 5 signature variations, the author changed his handwriting and signature in the space of a few months. Within two months, he changed his handwriting and within four months drastically changes his signature. The war circumstances affected him and his personality. That ultimately affected his handwriting. Naturally, the basic characteristics of the signatures are similar. There are always indications in every individual signature.

For this reason, and this can be found in countless examples, many Knight’s Cross winners had many more than one or two signature variations. But of course there were also KC winners who had a single, consistent signature (e.g. Rommel). Others had, because of sickness, dozens of variations (for example Hitler because of his Parkinson’s). Judging signatures, examining and comparing, requires many years of experience and knowledge."</tt>

[Adem]

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[Adem]

Other examples of the same person's signature.

[Adem]

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[Luger-Hunter]

Thank you very much to Adem

Dear Adem !

Many thanks to you for posting my samples.

Because I do not have the access (fee will be $ 25,-- for a year) I requested Adem to post those samples for changing the signatures and handwriting in a period of only a few months.

As Adem has mentioned (of course - I do have hundrets and hundrets other samples of chaning signatures and handwriting in short periods), this came out of a family from a normal soldier (EK II - recipient) and nobody is interested to forger those samples. I got all the fieldpostletters from his sister and she is still alive. You could call her, if somebody do not trust me.

In regarding of the "Never Endend Story" with the Michael Wittmann signature, I would like to bring the proof, that changing handwriting and changing signatures in just a short period was nothing special.

From Wittmann for example, I do have other different signature samples - on documents and on signed items (like the clipped signature we have seen here in the other thread).

And I have plenty of other samples for the proof, that Göring for example signed photos and he wasn´t on the photo. Same with at least 40-50 other Knights Cross Winner. In the other thread "Wittmann-signature" I tried more than one time to explain, that many K.C.-winner signed photos etc. and they were not on the photo.

The question was all the time:
Why should he do this?
It´s impossible!
This must be a fake!

This was more than one time the answere from other users.

But please believe me. This was possible - and the person did this on the request from the collecter (nicknamed "Hitlerjunge"). Last mentioned person used every item he could claim to get an item signed from a hero.

Of course - they exists photos from that persons to like Hoffmann-postcards.

But please understand and think from the point of the collector. Those boys were maybe 10, 12 or 13 years old. The weekly "Taschengeld" - money from their parents was ruffly 50 Pfennige! The fee for one postcard like Hoffmann was 20 Pfennige. So - in fact - if the "Hitlerjunge" spend all his "Taschengeld", he could get not more than 2 1/2 photos.

Sending the feldpost - backwards - forwards - cost him nothing.
Using the fieldpost was for him free of charge.

As mentioned - I did hundrets of signings for the Military Gallery in the period of over twenty years (they publish the ROBERT TAYLOR and other aviation prints). I claimed for the Gallery hundret thousands of signatures from different Knights Cross Winner on prints - showin german aircrafts. The K.C.-winner signed those aircrafts and were wasn´t their aircraft.

Why did the person this?
Nobody did this!
This must be a fake?????

Nothing is impossible - I saw the same on photos from Knights Cross Winner - wearing for example parts of british uniforms and that from a german in beginning of 1941. The same with russian, american uniforms etc....etc....
And uniform collectors will ask the same question:
That´s impossible........
But this is an other story

If you have more question about, please feel free and contact me.

Kindest regards, Stefan Körlin

[Simon O.]

Good post Stefan. Purely speaking for myself, my own signature changes all the time depending on what i write on, what with, if i'm in a hurry, if i'm distracted etc. etc. etc.


A question for you. Do you know of any cases where a person had one signature for things like postcards and autograph collectors and another for official\private use? The reason i ask is that i have a signed photo of an RKT general (Max Pemsel) where the signature is completely different from that used on award documents and other official paperwork.

[Ian Jewison]

Good post Stefan. Purely speaking for myself, my own signature changes all the time depending on what i write on, what with, if i'm in a hurry, if i'm distracted etc. etc. etc.


A question for you. Do you know of any cases where a person had one signature for things like postcards and autograph collectors and another for official\private use? The reason i ask is that i have a signed photo of an RKT general (Max Pemsel) where the signature is completely different from that used on award documents and other official paperwork.

Well I for one have two signatures......official and everyday "signing for" signature......I had a case recently trying identify a signature in a Flugbuch......the signature looked sort of like the person but not like his official "autograph" signature.....after throroughly examining it and the corresponding unit it was confirmed as Hans-Ulrich Rudel!

I will find the post for reference..........

There are many conflicting threads on the forum about signatures, what is good and bad....people have their own opinions and sometimes there is no way of changing it...whether or not they are right or wrong!

Anyway welcome here Stefan and thanks for your input. Lets hope it's more pleasant this time


Regards,
Ian

[Ian Jewison]

Here it is....didn't expect it in the Flugbuch and had owned the group for some years before spotting it!!!! The owner was a member of III/Stuka 1 and later Versuchkommando für Panzerbekämpfung in Rechlin....this unit flew with 3.7 cm flak cannons under their Stukas.......a unit led by Hauptmann Hans-Karl Stepp and Hauptmann Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ad.php?t=20996

Obviously in later years he wrote with his other hand!

[Luger-Hunter]

Message to SIMON

Hi Simon !

Thanks for your statement.

Regarding your question about, who signed official documents/letters and photos/cards for collectors different:

I know in my mind a few - but without looking in my archive, I guess the following two person:

Oakleave winner Otto Weiß
a n d
Oakleave winner Walter Sigel

But I cannot give the guarantee, that both did this for a long time - I only have the two samples in my mind, because I saw from one period from both a bunch of signed photos - but signed different in comparison to the document.

The photo(s) was(were) fieldpost runned - so I knew the date.

Of course - I do some other - but just in the hurry I have no other samples in my mind.

Best regards, Stefan Körlin

[Luger-Hunter]

Message to Ian

Hi Ian !

Yes - Rudel is a good sample.
I have had a few documents from the same period - different signed as a set of photos I had (fieldpost marked) from him.

Of course - I am talking about wartime period - not postwar period.

Rudel signed postwar after his stroke with his other hand.
From this time on, Rudel had a bunch of different signature styles.

Kindest regards, Stefan Körlin

[Adem]

Rudel

Some Rudel examples, all wartime. Rudel on a photo, a clipped one, as well as 5 taken from documents.