Help : Oberst Dt. Lw in Italien identification

[polux]

Hello,

I wish to identify the officer who signed this document in the date of December 11, 1944. Beforehand thank you.

Cordial greetings.

Polux

[Larry deZeng]

If you can get someone to decipher the signature, then I have the information on him.

--Larry

[polux]

Hello Larry,

Thank you for your help. Difficult to decipher this signature. A member of this forum proposed me Mehner, this without certainty. In this date, December, 1944, the number of Oberst within the Komm. Generals der Dt. Lw in Italien must be restricted and will facilitate the research, I hope for it.

Cordial greetings.

Polux

[Larry deZeng]

The incomplete (and often incorrect) listing from Mehner & Teuber identifies 4 Obersten in the Stab of the Kommandierender General der deutschen Luftwaffe in Italien in December 1944:


Oberst Hans von Ploetz
Oberst Paul Gottschling
Oberst Wilhelm Merz
Oberst Hermann Bierfelder

None of these match the signature. You might also take another look under the signature at the word "Generals". I think that should be "General" without the "s".

--Larry

[polux]

Hello Larry,

Thank you for your sensible remarks. To direct your researches, the stamp placed to the left of this signature carries the title according to : Kommandeur der Luftflottentruppe 2. I hope that this indication will be able to help you in your researches. Beforehand thank you.

Cordial greetings.

Polux

[Larry deZeng]

Luftflotte 2:
…………………
27 Sep 44: Stab ordered disbanded at Malcesine this date, with all responsibility for air operations in the Italian theater to be turned over to Stab/Kommandierender General der deutschen Luftwaffe in Italien.
Oct 44: remnants of Stab disbanding at Baden near Vienna/Austria.

The last Kommanandeur der Luftflottentruppen 2 was:

FUNCKE, Heinz. (DOB: 21.12.92 in Hagen/Westfalen). 01.04.34 trf to the Luftwaffe from the Heer with a rank of Hptm. and appt IIa in Stab/Höheren Luftamt Münster. 01.10.34 promo to Maj. 01.03.35 appt IIa in Stab/Luftkreis-Kdo. IV, Münster. 01.10.35 appt Lufttaktik-Lehrer (air tactics instructor) at the Kriegschule München. 01.10.36 promo to Obstlt. 01.01.39 promo to Oberst and appt Kdr. Flieger-Ausb.Rgt. 62 and Kdt. Fl.H.Kdtr. Quedlinburg. 01.40 appt Kdr. LKS 2, Berlin-Gatow and Kdt. Fl.H. Berlin-Gatow (to 30.11.43). 01.10.41 promo to Gen.Maj. 01.05.44 appt Kdr. 1. Fliegerausbildungsdivision (to 14.06.44). 1944 appt Kdr. Luftflottentruppen 2 (Lfl. 2). 01.01.45 promo to Gen.Lt. †04.05.45 into U.S. captivity. †16.06.69.

So:
(1) Luftflotte 2 had been disbanded on 27 September 1944;
(2) the signature block is spelled wrong - it should be "General" and not "Generals", I believe;
(3) The signature does not look like "Funcke", at least to me;
(4) Funcke was not an Oberst - he had been a Gen.Maj. since 01.10.41.

Hope that helps,

--Larry

[Simon O.]

Would it be possible to see the entire document?

[Gerdan]

The signature could start with " Me..h..."


Gerdan

[polux]

Hello,

Larry : thank you for your information. I do not think that the Kommandeur of this unity signed this document. I think that an Oberst, member of this staff, signed this document. The problem of misprint error remains on the word Generals to resolve.

Simon : here is a complete image of the document. Interesting detail : by presenting this document in front of a light source, it appears a watermark with the registration CIVILE and the beginning of a piece of coat of arms of wich is visible the bottom of a fasces of lictor. Considering this information, I think that the document was well printed in Italy.

Gerdan : thank you for your proposition, to study.

I stay in the listening of your comments. Beforehand thank you.

Cordial greetings.

Polux

[polux]

Here is an increase of the stamp.

Polux

[polux]

Here is an increase of the stamp in negative.

Polux

[Larry deZeng]

Pollux wrote:

Larry : thank you for your information. I do not think that the Kommandeur of this unity signed this document. I think that an Oberst, member of this staff, signed this document. The problem of misprint error remains on the word Generals to resolve.

Lw.-Jäger-Btl. z.b.V. 8 was billeted in the Porec (Parenzo) - Visnjan (Visignano) area from summer 1944 to at least February 1945. The Btl. Kdr. was Hptm. Friedrich Friedler. Friedler was tried at Rijeka by the Yugoslavs for war crimes committed by his battalion in Istria and the Adriatic Littoral and executed on 4 February 1949.

Here is a list of every Luftwaffe Oberst whose last name begins with Me:

Karl Mehnert
Theodor Meiners
Karl Meise
Friedrich Meissner
Max Meissner
Kurt Melmer
Rudolf Memmert
Karl-Robert Menge
Arthur Menke
Dietrich Menne
Johannes Mentzen
Günther Menzel
Kurt Menzel
Hubert Merhard von Bernegg
Heinrich Merkel
Horst Merz
Friedrich Messthaler
Gerhard Methner
Martin Mettig
Josef Metzger
Ernst Meyer
Friedrich-August Meyer
Ludwig Meyer
Paul Meyer
Rudolf Meyer
Walter Meyer
Wilhelm Meyer
Erich Meyer-Halle
Hans Meyer-Sach
Rudolf Mezler

Perhaps one of our German members can take another look and see if there might be a match.

--Larry

[Gerdan]

From all the possibilities Larry gave us I would prefer "Mehnert"


Gerdan

[Larry deZeng]

MEHNERT, Karl. (DKG). 1938 Obstlt., appt Kdr. I./KG 355 (to 30.04.39), then Kdr. I./KG 53 (to 10.05.40). 20.07.40 Obstlt., appt Kdr. Navigationschule Strausberg and Kdt. Fl.H. Strausberg (to 20.08.41). 01.09.41 promo to Oberst. 16.10.41 appt Kommodore KG 2 (to 31.12.41). 01.42 appt Kommodore KG 40 (to 07.42). 10.10.42 Oberst (Tr.O.), trf from Ob.d.L./RLM pool to Flieger-Rgt. 42. 29.03.43 appt provisional Kdr. Jäger-Rgt. 20 (L)/10. Lw.-Feld-Div. 01.01.45 Oberst, awarded the DKG as Kdr. of a Lw.-Jäger-Rgt. 25.03.45 Obstlt. (f.n. not given and rank incorrect), appt Kdr. Fsch.Jg.Rgt. 24 (to 05.45).

Since information concerning his career and assignments during 1944-45 is unknown or at least very murky, then he could very well be the one. The 10. Lw.-Felddivision was disbanded on the Leningrad Front on 12 February 1944, so Oberst Mehnert could have been sent to Italy anytime after that date. He seems to have made a career for himself as a field soldier, so fighting partisans in North Italy would have been consistent with his experience.

--Larry

[polux]

Hello,

Larry : Thank you for the detailed nature of your information.

The presence of the letter S in the end of the word General was resolved by a member of the forum, here is his message :

"The title is Oberst, Kommandeur der Stabstruppen des Komm. Generals ...
If you have a des, then the General is definitely spelled correct with an S at the end. Nothing wrong here".

Thank you Paul

By making researches, I found an interesting information in the Mr. Klaus D Patzwall's book "Das Bandenkampfabzeichen" on 2003. On the page 40 and 41 of this work is presented a Bandenkampftage's list of a member of the same unit that that of the diploma, is Lw Jg. Btl. z.b.V. 8. This list presents 22 days of fights against the partisans between March 15, 1944 and November 20, 1944. The article clarifies that the holder of this list was decorated with the Bandenkampfabzeichen Bronze on December 19, 1944.

Cordial greetings.

Polux