Have to agree with Tim, when you see it in close-up..
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Hi Tim,
Is that the exact same badge
KR
PhilippeComment
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Hi Tim:Originally posted by Tim Calvert
That looks like the exact same piece that I am holding. The wear patterns and coloration etc seem all to be the same. Sometimes my friend puts stuff up on consignment with a well known internet dealership in Canada that once put out an printed auction catalog. If that is the case, he did not tell me he had it on consignment and that it was returned as he is trying to sell me the piece...that is why I posted it on the forum for him, so that I could get opinions on it. I will ask him if he did that with this piece as the photo seems to match.
JohnComment
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My belief is that we are seeing here the limit of classifying Juncker pilot badges to J1, J2 and J3Comment
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I never really liked using the J1, J2 et as well, it seems that it mustvhave evolved on this forum. I use the term because of that is the standard here.But when I talk to my sources they have no idea what I mean.
The standard would be more like pre-1939, 1939-1942 ect.
Just some thoughts
Best,
JDWhat we do in life ehoes in eternity.Comment
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I, for one, am eagerly awaiting Detlev's new price catalogue as he is going to include 7 different patterns of Juncker PB's... Now, that will be interesting..Comment
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It's a convenient way to describe the 3 types of Juncker Pilots badge on this forum, however it is a problem, when communicating with anyone outside of this arena or not up to speed with the 'jargon'.
Most european dealers use the term 'Flat Wreath' for ALL 1st pattern's & do not differenciate between 2nd & 3rd pattern Pilots. Wireless Ops/Air Gunners have 1st & 2nd patt, Obs should have 1st, 2nd & 2nd/3rd?
A problem with setting a date to the types, is does anyone actually know what dates these were patterns were actually introduced (except 1st pattern)??
Normal military terms I presume would be Mark 1, Mark II, Mark III??
No real win with this in my opinion.
NeilComment
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I talked to Detlev about this once. Not to quote him but to paraphrase as best as possible he told me he includes the maker mark differences when determining a Juncker variety as well as wreath thickness. Add in the CEJ, thin wreath and other variations and it adds up.Comment
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I think that the J1, J2 and J3 calssifications have held up very strongly so far. There are 3 types of wreaths and 3 types of eagles. Has anyone seen other types yet? When someone mentions J1, I know exactly what the form of the badge is, the maker's mark could be different on these as we have seen. Even though the wreaths and eagles of a J2 and J3 have been interchanged, I know what I will be looking at when given such a description.Comment
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this cassification is (as I have said many times) incomplete as most of the people here think only J1,J2 & J3 and when one does not exactly match one of the 3 they are fake
Prewar - at least 3
Early war - 2
41-43 at least 3
I believe the one posted by John is a prewar exampleComment
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Sir,Originally posted by Tim Calvert
Is it really what you think?Comment
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Can we dig on that?Originally posted by Joseph D'ErricoComment
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François, can you post Juncker examples you have that are not J1-2-3 that you received in groupings with provenance? Thank you.Comment
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In order to stay on line with my original question concerning the point raised by Mr C. "P.S. Think about how much easier a repro badge maker's job is if he can simply put a screwback on it. No need to get that pin / hinge and clasp correct!!! " I will post later close ups of the one from Major Ibel, which by the way is the one pictured in Military Advisor.
Maybe that could give some back ups to Kermit "All were factory made , meaning not modified after factory production...." and to the one posted by John.Comment
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OK François, will your example with a screwback be an eagle and wreath NOT seen on a so called J1-2-3? Thank you.Comment
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