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**IVAN** · 12-10-2003, 03:51 PM

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**IVAN** · 12-10-2003, 03:52 PM

rv

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**ERIC S.** · 12-10-2003, 04:17 PM

Hello Ivan,

It looks like a late war 3rd pattern ( zinc ) Juncker to me. The eagle, wreath, hinge and catch ( both with the bottom plates ) are what I would like to see on a late war Juncker Pilot Badge. No problem with it at all.
ERIC

**Philippe DB** · 12-10-2003, 04:20 PM

Dear Ivan,

I agree with Eric, good late ware Juncker nothing wrong with the little bird.

KR
Philippe

**skip** · 12-10-2003, 05:13 PM

Yep, a Juncker for me to. I suppose that Juncker were so depressed by the poor quality that they were producing this late in the war, that they did´nt even want to put there MM on it.

Skip

**John T** · 12-10-2003, 05:23 PM

This badge has some nice honest patination...I like to see this as I feel it is not possible to duplicate such age with artificial means, John

**IVAN** · 12-11-2003, 02:40 PM

thanks to all, friends.

strange for me is the colour, unfortunately now I haven't in my hands but I had it. In original light it looks exactly as you can see in this scans, wreath totally black without traces of silver colour and the eagle looks like silver colour, maybe pilot-observer ? What do you think ? the wreath colour is like late para badges in zinc, but these type of badges were done for to look old silver or grey-black colour.......

thanks

regards

ivan

**Philippe DB** · 12-11-2003, 02:57 PM

Dear Ivan,

If it was a PO you should be able to find traces of gold finish on hinge and catch, wouldn't you agree?

KR
Philippe

**IVAN** · 12-11-2003, 03:05 PM

Originally posted by Philippe DB

Dear Ivan,

If it was a PO you should be able to find traces of gold finish on hinge and catch, wouldn't you agree?

KR
Philippe

I don't know, I see any traces in it.

ivan

**John T** · 12-11-2003, 05:12 PM

I agree...if it was a p/o I think you would see some traces of gilt on the hinge and catch an even the rivits...ie on the non zinc parts, John

**Lorenzo Brown** · 12-11-2003, 07:20 PM

With the black wreath and silver eagle, maybe it is a very late-war and unofficial "Unqualified Pilot Badge"...issued to anybody with a valid drivers license who was willing to grab the joystick and fly a mission.

Very stange color combibation, but the silvering on the catch and the hinge base-plate would suggest that it was not a PO badge....but a Pilot badge. Problem is....can't explain the silver back and gold colored obverse on the eagle.

**IVAN** · 12-12-2003, 02:37 PM

Originally posted by Lorenzo Brown

With the black wreath and silver eagle, maybe it is a very late-war and unofficial "Unqualified Pilot Badge"...issued to anybody with a valid drivers license who was willing to grab the joystick and fly a mission.

Very stange color combibation, but the silvering on the catch and the hinge base-plate would suggest that it was not a PO badge....but a Pilot badge. Problem is....can't explain the silver back and gold colored obverse on the eagle.

thank you .

maybe a pilot for night flight with black wreath??

I remember eagle in front was very dirty, with a heavy patina.

...About night flight, I wrote it for joke but.........I think in this moment, anybody have notices about this ? sure is a crazy thought

**Sal Williams** · 12-12-2003, 03:05 PM

Hi Everyone,
I was looking at the swa on that badge and it is so rough and uneven I guessed it was a fake. Then everyone said it was good. I thought that real badges had sharp detail etc.? I am more confused and surprised.

I also am not sure of another aspect of these badges. If I type in the search pilots badge I come up with 2 types. One looks like this and the other has a totally different look, particularly the right (as you look at it) wing. It is a much smaller wing. Are these Pilot observers? Is there a different badge called just a Pilots badge? What is the other one with the different wing? If it has gold in the wreath it is Observers? Hellllllpppp!
Best, Sal

**Frank Heukemes** · 12-12-2003, 04:46 PM

Dear Sal,

Golden wreath is always pilot/observer. The wing length doesn´t matter and is due to different maker styles.

Especially on later Juncker pilots (J3s and zinc badges), the swastika can be quite rough with arms of slightly uneven thickness. But also the most encountered late war zinc pilot´s badge (which looks close to a GWL design, but isn´t) has a swaz that has one arm thinner than the others.

Cheers, Frank

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