Assmann Flak, two patterns?

[Gene]

Here's mine, front

[Gene]

Back

[Philippe DB]

Hi Gene,

I'm sorry but nobody will ever convince me that this is a genuine Assmann Luft flak.

1. Eagle = poor attempt to immitate a Juncker 2 pattern eagle
2. What is the thing that got stuck between the wreath and the eagles left wing. Is that a part of the wing or isn't the wreath cut out in that area?
3. Why is the swas hoovering so high?
4. General layout of wreath and gun are Assmann IMO but they don't come close in the area of detailing to any of the badges posted above.
5 I don't think I can see a mm on the eagle. But the mm on the canon is without a doubt the most sorry excuse for an Assmann mark I have ever seen.

KR
Philippe

[Frank Heukemes]

Dear Gene,

Yes, that is the type I was looking for. I have seen another one from a member here that looked a bit more believable as far as patina goes. But we all know also patine could be faked or actually have built up on an older fake.

To be honest, I also never felt easy about these Assmann badges with that "Junckery" eagle. What are your and other member´s thoughts?

Cheers, Frank

[Mike Pinkus]

Ok
it was always my opinion that Assmann made a nickel silver badge....all that have been displayed are the tombac variety....since when i was constructing my site the only nickel silver that i could even find a pic of was Gene's example i used that.....granted i do not like the engraved mark but it was different from the "known" fake in the repop section of my site.....so the big question....did Assmann make a nickel silver variety, or are the tombac pieces all they made????
mike

Dear Gene,

Yes, that is the type I was looking for. I have seen another one from a member here that looked a bit more believable as far as patina goes. But we all know also patine could be faked or actually have built up on an older fake.

To be honest, I also never felt easy about these Assmann badges with that "Junckery" eagle. What are your and other member´s thoughts?

Cheers, Frank[/QUOTE]

[Philippe DB]

Dear Mike,

I find it very difficult to believe that the badge Gene posted could be made of nickel silver. I know it's difficult to judge that from a pic but I'm quit confident.

Typical for Nickel Silver badges is the dark patina the silver will develope over time. Gene badge doesn't have that patina nor will it ever develope it.

Just to underline my point I'll post what I consider a nickel silver badge. I'm sure you know the type. All the black you see is pure silver patina and not black finish

KR
Philippe

[Gene]

My badge is nickel silver, and I believe it to be 100% original wartime manufacture.

[mgidhagen]

This is not my badge, unfortunately, but I remembered that it was slightly different while reading this thread... (If you are the owner of this badge/these pics, and feel offended by seeing them here, please let me know!)
Have a look at the eagle's right wing (seen from the obverse); is the thinner shape due to handfinishing, photographic angle (don't think so?) or a result of another pattern...?:


Cheers,
Mike G

[Frank Heukemes]

Dear Mike,

I guess you are talking about the LEFT wing (viewed from the front). Yes, it is thinner. I turned my badge into the same angle and this wing does indeed have another shape. Since the rest of the badge is identical to the others of that type, I assume this is some handfinishing issue.

Cheers, Frank

[Frank Heukemes]

I know some more people here own a badge just like Gene´s. Would you post them and discuss, please?

Cheers, Frank

[mgidhagen]

Yayaya... I was actually referring from the eagle's perspective...!
Cheers,
Mike G

Dear Mike,

I guess you are talking about the LEFT wing (viewed from the front). Yes, it is thinner. I turned my badge into the same angle and this wing does indeed have another shape. Since the rest of the badge is identical to the others of that type, I assume this is some handfinishing issue.

Cheers, Frank

[Kecon]

Hi Guys

I'm not going to defend Gene's badge, but I'd like to add my opinion.
Makers' dies did brake and they had to make new ones. Maybe due to flaws in the dies themselves. Maybe Gene's badge is an early type.
When we look at the early nickel silver Brehmer flaks we see a hole.
When they switched to the G.B. zinc type, the hole disappeared.
Granted the other features of the two look the same but who knows.
A new set of dies?
I'm a big Flak badge fan and I hope you guys figure this one out before
this thread goes dead like a lot of them do. I got enough crap
keeping me awake at night.

Best regards
Ken

[Philippe DB]

Maybe Gene's badge is an early type.

Hi Ken,

I think thats impossible.

In the Juncker Flak thread we just found out that Juncker used 2 different eagle patterns. Even If Assmann used Juncker eagles on their early Luft Flakbadges you would expect to see a first Pattern eagle and not the second pattern as featured on Gene's badge.

KR
Philippe

[Gene]

Again, this badge is in my opinion 100% original WW2 German. It may be a pattern you have never seen and are unfamiliar with, but to say it's fake would be premature.

[Jos L C]

My first impression of Gene's badge is that I like it,whether it is a textbook Assmann or not.
We all know most Assmann badges can be found with relief A or hammered in A.
The eagle on this badges is a loose item that's soldered on.
It sometimes occurs they're mounted a bit too high ,so part of the wreath where the eagle should be is visible...not a point to say fake..
Other type eagle isn't a point to say fake too.
The eagle might be a Juncker one,that's good and very well possible.
I like the hinge on this one..
So,no obvious points for me to say fake in the first place..

I too like to see more types of Gene's badge to examine..
Till now it's a good badge to me untill someone proofs me wrong..

Jos.