Honor goblet on estand

[BryanD]

Personally I think as Mr Coleman does. He is a wise man.
I see nothing wrong with making a profit. If an individual is so wealthy that he can give less fortunate collectors deals on great items, Many blessings upon his head. In my particular case I am not rich and when I buy something and I can make a profit when I decide to sell that is called capitalism. To me that is a GOOD THING. No body is paying the gentleman in question bills but him. While we all want to be buddies nobody is obligated to be a fool when it comes to money. ( Lots of Scotch blood in my family.) There is no foul in this particular play boys. None at all. As far as dooms day predictions about prices I have heard this before. It is like the fellow on the street walking around with a sign that says "THE END IS NEAR". Don't hold your breath. It sure as hell hasn't happened with American Civil War items. People in the US have been collecting that material a heck of a lot longer than Nazi stuff. Bummers caps for $3000.00 with moth holes. I have bought them for 20 bucks and sold them for 50 many times in the past. But the ones I have held on to that I paid $20.00 for damn sure won't be sold for 50 and I do not care whose feelings it might hurt. Neither will the 10 dollar German helmets I bought 35 years ago. When my Falshirmjager and SS helmets come up for sale they will be at top prices regardless of what I paid for them and I bet they will sell also. What is it those French boys say? Se la Vie. (My French is terrible. ) I sure do think French girls are pretty though. Both my Grandfathers (WWI vets) had high regards for them.

[Bill W.]

Sour grapes? I am not jealous and don't need the money. Reading through threads there are ALOT of collectors who would like a reasonably priced goblet (I have plenty and do not need or want more) who would keep the piece. Why not sell it to them and give them a break? They would actually keep the piece and cherish it for the history, instead of using it as a trading chip. I really think that doubling the price of a piece in a week is just ripping someone off and should not be encouraged. The next time I see such a "deal", I will just buy the item myself and post it on the estand for the same price with the specific requirement that the buyer not resell the item for a quick profit. I am a little suprised at the sentiments on the thread as it states fairly clearly that most feel as though just getting as much money as you can get out a piece is the best thing to do and other collectors be damned. I am thankful that my collection was not built on these sentiments, as I would probably not have as large of a collection if this attitude was the norm.

[Gary Cain]

Jeez,

You guys are going to tell me that if you find a 1000 dollar medal at a garage sale for 10 bucks you're not going to flip it for the max amount possible? Get real! A member finds a good, real goblet at a dealers site and buys it for a fantastic price and then decides to sell it for a profit.....you mean to tell me that you wouldn't do it too?

I detect a little jealousy creeping in to the discussion. I think a hearty pat on the back and a good for you is in order!


Gary

[Darrell]

Ok ... so let me put it this way ....

Any of the posters on this thread ever complained of Kai Winkler's high prices when he was selling German stuff? Why?

He's just making a good man's business decision ... right? I'm not saying he's wrong doing it ... I'm just saying he did it and they same folks above whined and complained like it was the end of the world ....

[Jeff V]

Smart guy.... turn a good profit... who would not do the same... jealous at his smarts....
No wonder this hobby is going down the toilet. The investor mentality is apparently all that matters. Oh well, good luck finding buyers when it is your time to sell.
best wishes,
jeff

[Gary Cain]

I think that he will have no problem turning this at all. And if someone were to approach him and say "I know you got a great deal on this do you think you could cut me a little deal?" my guess is he would. You are beginning to sound like a teenager.


Gary

Smart guy.... turn a good profit... who would not do the same... jealous at his smarts....
No wonder this hobby is going down the toilet. The investor mentality is apparently all that matters. Oh well, good luck finding buyers when it is your time to sell.
best wishes,
jeff

[Gary B]

So flipping an item for double the price in one week is perfectly acceptable? I guess the next time I sell an item, I will just ask for the maximum possible price and not try to give other collectors a good deal based on the investment I have in a piece. I have done this in the past, but will stop doing it now, as it is apparently not a good thing to do. If a "collector" was going to flip an item one week later, I would have hoped that they would have just left it alone for another collector to buy who would have actually kept the item. Call me dumb, but I saw that very same goblet probably in the first hour it appeared on Collectors Guild, recognized it was a great deal, but did not buy it because I already have a few goblets to RK holders. I had hoped that it would have gone to a collector who would have kept it. I guess I was a little shocked to see that the purpose of the purchase was just to turn a profit.

Dear Bill,

To ask you a question, if you bought an RK for $500 at a gun show what would you sell it for? Lets say a month went by and you needed money for a big purchase or a house repair. Based off of your logic here I would believe that you would offer this RK for about $600. That would be a fair return on your investment and would afford good deal to a fellow collector. Correct?

Tha fact here is that Martin bought a piece at a great price, about 1/2 of what market value is. He is selling it here for market value and not trying to rip anybody off. Market value is the key word here. Just becasue he is doubling his money is immaterial.

Gary B

[Bob Hritz]

In a free society, every person may price his goods as he chooses. if the price is too high, the item will not sell. if the price is too low, the item may sell several times until it reaches the correct price. The correct price is whatever a buyer and seller agree upon.

There is nothing wrong with profits. I cannot find my wants, even when offering very high prices.

Bob Hritz

[Stahlhelm]

I agree on several things I have read here, and I'd also like to comment on a few of them.

1. There is nothing wrong with selling something you have bought for a bargain at a higher price. As others have said, I don't think anyone else would really be interested in passing on the savings to the next buyer. Since I don't believe that anyone would really do that, I also don't see the point of criticizing anyone who attempts it.

2. If something is truly at an absurdly high price, then it will likely not sell. Collectors as a whole ultimately determine the true "value" of the things they collect by paying (or not paying) the prices the sellers ask. Anyone has the right to ask whatever price he/she wants. Any collector has the right to refuse it. I agree that the "sour grapes" effect is mostly what drives the concerns over marked-up prices. Collectors who really want something don't want to pay what the seller wants for what they really want. In other words, it's just ultimatelly not really so easy for a collector to see something he/she wants and just say, "That's too high, so I just won't buy it." The desire to have that particular thing that you really can't find elsewhere just keeps lingering in a collectors mind and tempting him to buy it anyway. I know this feeling too well, since I myself have felt it many times. Sometimes, I admit that I've even given in and paid the higher price just because I want it, just because it's in just the right condition, and/or I can't find it elsewhere. Since those collectors are out there, and any seller knows it, why should the seller not have the right to ask what he/she wants and take the chance. It all boils down to what you have, how great, rare, etc. it is, how much you want to sell it, how much others want it, and how much patience you and potential buyers have about selling or having it. It's all a big game, and everybody plays it in the end.

3. I agree 100% that there will, soon enough, be a huge flooding of what we collect into the future market, with those twenty-something people today who mostly don't have the slightest interest in any of it. I've talked to too many people with untold amounts of money invested in it who absolutely refuse to acknowledge this, because it's simply too painful and yes--too much money to think of losing. Absolutely no one wants to believe that all the stuff that one has paid countless amounts of money for will soon enough be worth a small fraction of what was paid. That's the inevitable nightmare that no one will accept, no matter how much sense it makes. I've heard too many people comment about how this stuff is someday going to "put my kids through college", "support me, when I retire", etc. The reality is that I seriously doubt it. I work in the feild of public education, and I can tell you from extensive experience (not supposition) that the average kid today can't tell you the first basic thing about the Third Reich, World War II, or the SS. Recently, on a multiple choice test question asking about Winston Churchill, for example, the most chosen answer stated that he was the first man to walk on the moon. I'm not kidding! How many of these students will likely care a rat's behind about the Third Reich or WWII in the future? How many of them will likely have a clue about the SS and want to pay thousands of dollars for one of their daggers? I seriously doubt it will be enough to support the kind of prices we see today! So, buy what you do because you want it, and not because of what you think it will be worth in the future. Sell what you have for whatever you want or whatever you can get--whichever may come first. There's far too many people who buy things for what they think they'll be worth later and not because they really want it. That's probably what bothers me more than just about anything else. It's all the people doing that who drive prices up so much now and keep those who really want the stuff from having it. However, like I said earlier, I guess it's just their right to do it. The only thing I'll get from all of right now is "sour grapes" as well.

That's just a few things that I think about all of this.

Chris

[Larry Lipps]

If someone making a profit bothers you, don't cry, just don't buy. With this logic, maybe someone can tell me just what is the maximum acceptable profit margin so I'll be certain never to step on anyone's toes.

[George L]

Chris, thanks for sobering description of our youth! I totally agree on buying pieces because you like them. One other thing to add is this is not unique to TR militaria! Happens all the time in vintage collectible cars/parts... The swap shows are like militaria shows. Get there early or else the parts you're looking will either be marked up on someone else's table, or gone. I'm sure the same applies to coins, vintage guitars, whatever.

[Bill W.]

Well Larry, don't you think that charging another collector a $4500 premium for holding a piece one week is a little excessive? I do. That is basically what is going on here. Again, I am not interested in buying the piece now or ever. I am just sad that I did not buy it and prevent this process from going on. I would have passed the piece on for the "profit" of the shipping fees. I have certainly done that for other pieces, but I guess, according to people on this thread, I was just an idiot for doing so and should have tried to squeeze the buyers for every penny they were worth. This piece was never bought for the purpose of collecting (as evidence by a few days of holding it) , but was bought as a buisness proposition to turn a profit (maybe even on payments through Collectors Guild). If that is really acceptable to everyone, then collecting has changed.

[Stahlhelm]

Chris, thanks for sobering description of our youth! I totally agree on buying pieces because you like them. One other thing to add is this is not unique to TR militaria! Happens all the time in vintage collectible cars/parts... The swap shows are like militaria shows. Get there early or else the parts you're looking will either be marked up on someone else's table, or gone. I'm sure the same applies to coins, vintage guitars, whatever.

You're welcome, George! I certainly also agree that this stuff happens in pretty much all areas of collecting. I also collect coins, pocket watches, and meteorites, and I do see it everywhere myself--even with things from beyond our own planet. It seems to be the human way, no matter what it is and where it comes from.

Chris

[Stahlhelm]

I think that the "maximum acceptable profit margin" is simply the amount that each prospective buyer considers to be acceptable. That will always be so subjective that stepping on someone's toes is inevitable. It could be maddening to even attempt any such sensitivity. I, therefore, agree again that a prospective buyers best recourse is too simply "don't buy". However, whoever wants a thing for sale will always find that far easier said than done, no matter what the price.

Chris

[Al P]

What is everyone arguing about?

The item belongs to him, so he gets to call the shots. That is the way it is, like it or not.

But that said; we also have the right to discuss the item, its history, and all other things hobby related here on the forum.

IMHO the history of that piece did not stop in 1945.


Al

And people wonder why this hobby is suffering.