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    #256
    Originally posted by Sebastien T View Post
    Im no expert on pokal, have only one in my collection from a high scorer ace but my understanding is that no 835 goblet were issue in 1942. They most likely were in alpaca from somewhere in 1941 onward? So that bring the proof that plain 835 do exist and that the engraving could be a forgery?
    Seb,
    We never know. Perhaps Hitler wanted to boost the moral of this Molders' unit ( I did not forget you folks) by presenting them with this goblet and used a higher quality 835 instead of alpaca.

    Comment

      #257
      Hi Chen,

      that is indeed a Sedlatzek goblet.
      These were made post war on demand. Quality is quite nice.
      In the past these were sold as original wartime pieces which is not correct. They come with different kind of engravings.
      More info can be found in the second edition 1971 book 'Fakes and frauds of the third reich' by Freiherr Von Mollendorf.
      Attached Files

      Comment

        #258
        Here is another one.
        Beautiful, crisp engraving.
        Attached Files

        Comment

          #259
          Nightstalker,
          Thanks for the information.
          I do not have a chance to get this Sedlatzek type to inspect.
          If you check one out before, how is the quality of the Sedlatzek pokal itself vs. a period one? Totally match?
          ( of course the engraving is different)

          Comment

            #260
            Originally posted by Sebastien T View Post
            ...but my understanding is that no 835 goblet were issue in 1942. They most likely were in alpaca from somewhere in 1941 onward? So that bring the proof that plain 835 do exist and that the engraving could be a forgery?
            Hi Sébastien,

            The last 835 Goblets were issued in March 1942, in that month the first Aplaka versions were also handed out.

            Regards, Thomas

            Comment

              #261
              Originally posted by chen View Post
              Nightstalker,
              Thanks for the information.
              I do not have a chance to get this Sedlatzek type to inspect.
              If you check one out before, how is the quality of the Sedlatzek pokal itself vs. a period one? Totally match?
              ( of course the engraving is different)
              A total match? No!
              But the quality is good, espcially the fighting birds are well detailed and the overall appearance is nice. It's one of the best reproductions on the market. When looking closer you can find major differences with the Wagners. The leafs on the lower part are very bombastic and the iron cross is poorly executed.
              They also seem to have a problem with the name engraving, looks most of the time sloppy. The 925 marking is a dead giveaway. I have seen two of them in auction, i always wanted to buy one out of interest but the hammer price was nearly as much as the market value of an alpaca goblet. My interest doesn't reach that far

              Comment

                #262
                Nightstalkler,
                Ok, now looks like there are 2 possibilities of this Molders' goblet:
                1. Someone used a blank 835 and do the engraving on the pokal body OR
                2. It was indeed a period pokal dedicated by Hitler to Molders' unit on August 1942. Why using 835 ( even if it was stopped at March 1942 did not mean all stocks were consumed so must have left-over) and not Alpaca, I have stated my guessing earlier.
                Anyway, I agree it is really up to individual's belief of this Molders goblet.

                Comment

                  #263
                  1. is correct.

                  Göring and Hitler were both great art connoisseur.
                  Remember the Galland story with the 4 diamonds !! Only top level .

                  Comment

                    #264
                    + 1 for a fake, probably old, engraving.
                    The dedication is personal to Molders, not to his unit
                    he was already dead
                    he received IC1 in april 1940, KC one month later, so there was even no time to reward him with goblet or german cross
                    "my dear..." without first name?
                    the certificates of the goblets were signed by Goering
                    the goblet was awarded to single soldiers, not to units
                    why to reward with a pokal who had received the diamonds to KC? Why to use a normal pokal one year after a state funeral?
                    poor engraving

                    Comment

                      #265
                      Again, what's poor about the engraving? Looks damn good on a purposely faked up nice goblet.
                      Attached Files

                      Comment

                        #266
                        I am wondering whoever said the engraving is poor, did they actually physically see/handle this goblet ?

                        Comment

                          #267
                          I think no.

                          Comment

                            #268
                            Originally posted by Thomas H View Post
                            Hi Sébastien,

                            The last 835 Goblets were issued in March 1942, in that month the first Aplaka versions were also handed out.

                            Regards, Thomas
                            Thanks Tom, I appreciated the information

                            Seb
                            The German Luftwaffe Pilot and Combined Pilot and Observer Badges of WWII 1933-1945
                            Volume I & Volume II

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                            Now Available
                            www.luftwaffepilotbook@gmail.com

                            Comment

                              #269
                              I've been looking for a good quality, reasonably priced blank goblet for quite some time, and have yet to find one.

                              Comment

                                #270
                                Originally posted by VtwinVince View Post
                                I've been looking for a good quality, reasonably priced blank goblet for quite some time, and have yet to find one.
                                Me too, contact me if you have one to sell.

                                Comment

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