"Claw" foot B&NL Flak

[Lorenzo Brown]

Here are some pictures of the marks. Skip's "claw" on left and Frank's "regular" on the right. Following are close-ups of the individual letters. The marks look the same to me.

[Marc Garlasco]

I hold the CLAW highly suspect. I think Robert gives us some keen differences in the badges, makes a good point about the number produced, and whatever you guys say about a gut check, this fails mine. So - not for my collection at this time.
Marc

[Lorenzo Brown]

B

[Lorenzo Brown]

N

[Lorenzo Brown]

L

[Lorenzo Brown]

Ampersand

[robert60446]

Here are some pictures of the marks. Skip's "claw" on left and Frank's "regular" on the right. Following are close-ups of the individual letters. The marks look the same to me.

Dear Lorenzo,
here is my picture of mm: "&"...

[robert60446]

Please pay attention to my "3 points of difference"...it is the same picture from "zoom - out" view...

[robert60446]

Here are some pictures of the marks. Skip's "claw" on left and Frank's "regular" on the right. The marks look the same to me.

Dear Lorenzo,
if you would make a master die from the original badge, of course your copy of "mm" will be looking almost identical...with few exceptions and lack of details maybe...right?

[Lorenzo Brown]

Dear Lorenzo,
if you would make a master die from the original badge, of course your copy of "mm" will be looking almost identical...with few exceptions and lack of details maybe...right?

But the mm is on the eagle....which is a different eagle!!! So that would mean that the stamp would have to be from a separate stamping.

Yes, the ampersand looks flaky, but the main characteristics are still there. You have to allow for variations in different stampings on different badges by different workers at different times and some deviations to the badge surface. All of which will display different wear patterns. And, of course. different photo/scanning devices and lighting angles.

No two marks will ever be exactly the same.

Here are some comparison points on the letters: On the "B" there are some specific angles that the letter takes and a small notch within the upper segment of the "B". I've only highlighted a few points but there are more:

[Lorenzo Brown]

On the "N", look at the left leg and the matching angle that it takes.

[Lorenzo Brown]

On the "L". look at the slight inward curvature in the spine of the leg: also note the angle of the base. Also there is some kind of distortion in the base corner.

I think these are very compelling features. Usually a fake mark does not come this close to an original.

[robert60446]

I think these are very compelling features. Usually a fake mark does not come this close to an original.

Dear Lorenzo,
i don't know what to think about this badge. It is not an easy one...I guess all the key answers are with Skip now...i would love to see better pictures of this badge...Anyway, yours one important question still remains unanswered: " B&NL made very few Luft Flak badges. Why would they make such a dramatic change to the eagle?"...<o =""></o>

[Lorenzo Brown]

Dear Lorenzo,
i don't know what to think about this badge. It is not an easy one...I guess all the key answers are with Skip now...i would love to see better pictures of this badge...Anyway, yours one important question still remains unanswered: " B&NL made very few Luft Flak badges. Why would they make such a dramatic change to the eagle?"...<O =""></O>

Hi Robert. I agree with all of your points.
At best ... it is still an enigma.


P.S....But I am leaning toward "good".

[skip]

This is getting interesting, some great photo comparisons.

I´m sure mine is not a casting, theres not the slightest giveaway sign for casting. Also, if it was a casting they surely would have cast the same eagle as well.
Next is, in a casting the size is reduced, normally by a couple of MM. If we just look at the wreath and gun and compare to Franks we can see that they are virtually the same size. I think we can rule casting out.

Seems to me that the claw variation is a lot rarer than the "regular" type. Only 2 known until now.

Here some shots to show shear marks. God knows there are enough of them on the badge.
I´m pretty sure these are good, I just don´t know the reason for the eagle variations.

If we are going to brand this a copy it means that the fakers have got the COMPLETE B&NL setup 100% correct. We have never seen that sort of accuracy yet.

Skip