HSF with diamonds

[Norm F]

As it turns out, there's almost a complete line of these "Juncker design" KM badges with Diamonds.

So far in this thread we've seen the Fleet badge and the Minesweeper Badge, but looking into it more deeply, I now realize there's also the U-Boat, Destroyer and S-Boat with diamonds from this same maker (although there's no known Juncker S-Boat without diamonds).

Here's the U-Boat from the same maker. Interestingly, the obverse design is the same as the latest Juncker-attributed zinc variant, the only variant that has the missing laurel leaf tip over the aft end of the U-Boat.

This badge was discussed in an old thread here.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

And here's the Destroyer badge of this type. The same example was shown in both Nimmergut's Deutsche Orden und Ehrenzeichen and Patzwall's Die Auszeichnungebn der Kriegsmarine.

For comparison is the zinc Juncker-attributed Destroyer badge that was discussed here: http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=485635

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

It is interesting that on the closeup of the minesweeper eagle you can see the small striations in the die- my badge has similar marks- you can just see some in the close-ups of the eagle in my poor photos.

Yes, those radial striations as seen on both the zinc and the Diamond Minesweepers of this design, another indicator they are from the same maker.

The same concentric circular striations that are seen on the zinc Minesweepers and the diamonds badges are seen on the zinc Destroyer as well.

Best regards,
---Norm

[upbeek]

Norm,
Great works as usual!
These striations are what I wanted to talk about on another post connected to this one ,
How are the circular striations made ?
This is major research and interesting

Kind regards Chay

[Norm F]

These striations are what I wanted to talk about on another post connected to this one ,
How are the circular striations made ?
This is major research and interesting

Kind regards Chay

Hi Chay,

The striations are in fact very fine concentric circles with the focal point at the very middle of the obverse as indicated on the photo of the water plumes of the Minesweepers. Having studied several of these zincers, the circular pattern is identical on every badge showing that they were present in the obverse die. My theory is this pattern is an artifact from the reducing machine (pantograph), created when the master die was engraved from the oversized model. For whatever reason, it seems they were getting sloppy or using inferior equipment by this time?

Best regards,
—-Norm

[BubbaZ]

Thanks Norm
Again I learned something new
Cheers,
Hubert

[upbeek]

Thank you Norm,
Here is a badge known for Striations I have ,
See here a link of the Pantograph in use
https://youtu.be/-DRbgYLhc4Y

Kind regards Chay

[Norm F]

Here is a badge known for Striations I have ,

Hi Chay,

But your wound badge has the concentric striations on the reverse, so I presume that's reproducing a pattern on a plain cylindrical reverse die which wouldn't have been reduced on a pantograph?

See here a link of the Pantograph in use
https://youtu.be/-DRbgYLhc4Y

Here's a better look at a reducing pantograph at the 5 minute mark of this video of the Mayer operation:
https://youtu.be/vdPOZgW66MQ?t=298

and even better here:
https://youtu.be/KZEM_RMJMT4?t=73


Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

And here's the Destroyer badge of this type. The same example was shown in both Nimmergut's Deutsche Orden und Ehrenzeichen and Patzwall's Die Auszeichnungebn der Kriegsmarine.

In terms of provenance for the Destroyer badge with Diamonds, Nimmergut provides the text from a notarized affidavit from 1981 by an unnamed KM officer claiming to have found this one Destroyer badge among 4 or 5 other Diamonds badges about two months after the war in Flensburg-Mürwik where senior navy officers and the Marinehelferinnen were housed. The officer claimed to have had it engraved 009900 by a jeweller to identify it has his example and kept it until 1981.

While all that is an interesting story, what struck me most was the description of the case:

"For the first time, the case belonging to the badge with diamonds can be described here. Dimensions: 83.0 x 92.0 mm with rounded corners; covered with black grained calico. The inner cover covered with white satin, the base in blue velvet. On the lid an embossed rectangular, golden smooth ornamental line. The case has a pressure tongue lock."

Although no photo of the case is provided by Nimmergut, that description is very similar to the case of the Juncker-attributed Hilfskreuzer of Rogge that is shown in this thread:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...04#post8143304

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

Finally in this series of diamonds badges is the 2nd pattern S-Boat. The obverse of these is very close to the known Schwerin type but with a different swastika design and reverse. This one was listed by Weitze in 2018 with the following description:

"Production in the finest jeweler quality in silver, the waves patinated, gilded the oak leaf wreath with the national eagle. The details in the very finest quality, the national eagle with separately inserted swastika with 9 small diamonds occupied. On the back, a broad cross-needle with upper carrying hook. In the center with silver stamp "800". The piece is lightly worn in a particularly beautiful condition.

The badge is a period wearing version, which is also available for other Navy badge with diamonds. In the 64th auction of Andreas Thies the comparable auxiliary cruiser War Badge with diamonds from the same production was offered under lot 760 [the Rogge badge shown here]. The officially awarded pieces were produced by the company. "Schwerin Berlin"."

Interesting that Weitze describes it as a version for daily wear -- I wonder if that's just an assumption on his part based upon the fact that it differs from the "official" Schwerin.

[Norm F]

This may be the same type of S-Boat judging from the swastika design. This is the mysterious "prototype" alleged by Klietmann in the 1980s to have surfaced in Berlin in 1965. The same example is shown in more detail in colour in "The Kriegsmarine Awards" volume 2, page 952 with description on page 948.

Over and over, the 1980s appears to be the time period when all of these stories were coming to light, but the forensic connections to earlier Juncker production are still compelling.

[Norm F]

Here's the same example as the Weitze badge but photographed 10 years earlier when it was auctioned by Andreas Thies in 2008 with the description:

"974. War badge for speedboats in diamonds, 2nd model. Gilded silver. On the reverse silver stamp "800". Horizontal needle. The swastika is set with diamond splinters. On the back "Ajouren". On the back of the eagle an adjustment hook.

The piece arrived at the arrest of the last Reich's administration under Grand Admiral Dönitz, in Flensburg-Mürwick, in May 1945, in addition to further diamond badges in the possession of a naval member from the immediate vicinity of the Grand Admiral. From his possession the object offered here became the property of the consignor for this auction. Prospective buyers may be provided with a copy of an old newspaper report reporting their origin and purchase.
In the possession of the mentioned naval members also the badges pictured under no. 976, which were destroyed for the exploitation of the stones.

We regard this badge as an absolutely contemporary original before 1945 and the proof of origin absolutely reliable. In terms of quality and finish, it surpasses those produced by other manufacturers."

So this fits with the story behind the Destroyer badge with diamonds earlier. In the photo of the destroyed badges from the 2008 Thies auction you can see the same type of U-Boat and Minesweeper shown earlier, and presumably that's the same type of Fleet badge as the opening post.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

Also in the same 2008 auction of Andreas Thies was an intact Minesweeper badge of this series. This time the "800" mark is in the pin and the catch is different. Also, the holes in the back of the swastika are square instead of round. (The reverse photo is low resolution and blurry in enlargement.)

Translation of the auction house description:

"975 - War badge for minesweeping, submarine-hunting and security units with diamonds. Gilded silver, with pin, rear silver hallmark "800." The swastika set with diamond chips. Verso hand-sawn "Ajouren".

This piece turned up in the arrest of the last imperial government under Grand Admiral Doenitz, in Flensburt-Mürwick, in May 1945, as well as other diamond badges in the possession of a naval personnel from the immediate environment of the Grand Admiral, out of whose possession the object offered here passed into the ownership of the consignor to this auction.
In the possession of the said naval personnel was found also the badges shown under No. 976, that were destroyed for exploitation of the stones.

We consider this badge an absolutely contemporary original before 1945 and the proof of origin reliable. In quality and design it outperforms the pieces produced by other manufacturers."

Another example of this variant is shown in Patzwall's 2010 Militaria article which is attributed to Korvettenkapitän Palmgreen.

[Norm F]

Using Photoshop I reconstructed the fragmented Minesweeper from the Thies image to compare it to the intact badge. One can see that the obverse design is the same and that they vary in the hand cutting of the margins.

I've also included a comparison of the fragmented U-Boat to the earlier posted intact example.

[upbeek]

Hi Chay,

But your wound badge has the concentric striations on the reverse, so I presume that's reproducing a pattern on a plain cylindrical reverse die which wouldn't have been reduced on a pantograph?

I agree Norm,
It’s what I thought as well , I just wanted to show that striations existed during the war but I have not recalled seeing them on any other badge of pre may 1945? either front or back,

Well it looks like Patrick you have found something extremely interesting,

Kind regards Chay