Hilfskreuzer Sterling

[Martin W]

Hi John,

I was told the starting price on this fine sterling example was about 6000.00 euro and then dropped to 4000.00 euro.
I'm not arguing with the price,and i'm sure it is worth it,when you compare with other "high end" awards,and these Japanese made HK's are some of the rarest out there.

Whoever buys this award will have a rare little gem that will only increase in value over the years IMO.

Cheers,Martin.

[John R.]

Well, I would argue with that price but it is up to the seller to establish value. I would put it at 40% or less than that.

Just my opinion and I have no idea who the seller might be nor have I been asked by anybody outside of this forum what the value might be.

Very subjective for this type of artifact due to scarcity. However, just because it is scarce does not make it valuable for many of these TR items, we all know that.

The Japanese AC along with the Japanese medal to KM personnel in Penang are of interest to specialist collectors and there are not many of those hard core KM collectors out there IMO. Not anymore in any case.

If they were, your Mayer AC would be worth a heck of a lot also. Not as much as this but up there since there are fewer known Mayer tombak examples than Japanese AC examples, in STERLING or tombak.

I also own a Mayer AC in tombak (thanks to Jeff V) but I do not put any particular premium on it as compared with other tombak AC badges.

Again, I do not set any prices around here, so open to discussion.

Do not get me wrong, I like the Japanese AC and the Penang medal too.

John

[Martin W]

I have a bunch of photo's of Thor Crewmen taken in Japan after the ship was destroyed in Yokohama.
For interest this is one of my favorites,showing crewmen at Lake Ashi with Mt Fuji in the background.

Cheers,Martin.

[Norm F]

If they were, your Mayer AC would be worth a heck of a lot also. Not as much as this but up there since there are fewer known Mayer tombak examples than Japanese AC examples, in STERLING or tombak.

Good point. I've seen only two Schickle (formerly described as "Mayer") Auxiliary Cruiser badges in Tombak whereas I've seen 14 Japanese Auxiliary Cruisers posted over the same time period (3 Tombak and 11 silver). Based on rarity, I guess your Schickle is worth 7 times the Japanese badges -- that's about 28,000 Euro.

Best regards,
---Norm

[John R.]

Good point. I've seen only two Schickle (formerly described as "Mayer") Auxiliary Cruiser badges in Tombak whereas I've seen 14 Japanese Auxiliary Cruisers posted over the same time period (3 Tombak and 11 silver). Based on rarity, I guess your Schickle is worth 7 times the Japanese badges -- that's about 28,000 Euro.

Best regards,
---Norm

See how easy it is to fall into old bad habits Norm? Yes, Schickle.

John

[Gary B]

Interesting discussion. While the Mayer might be rarer, I believe the Japanese version is more desirable ("cool factor") due to it undisputed association with the Thor and Michel. I recall seeing these as high as 8000 euro a few years ago but the market has probably adjusted downward since then.

Gary B

[Norm F]

I recall seeing these as high as 8000 euro a few years ago but the market has probably adjusted downward since then.

Gary B

Well, the silver one on Weitze (attributed to a "Michel" crew member) has been sitting there for a long time unsold at 6000 Euro. If that one ever sells then one could say that it's worth that much (to at least one person) but in the meantime one must assume it's overpriced.

Kai Winkler had the rarer Tombak version for sale 5 years ago, attributed to a "Thor" crew member, for 3500 Euro which of course would be cheaper still during one of his regular "30% off" sales, so perhaps that's a more realistic range.

But in the end for all rare items, to the patient seller it's worth what one TR collector in the world is willing to pay (likewise for the Schickle Auxiliary Cruiser.) Our problem is, as KM collectors we lack objectivity and value such things way more than any sane third party investor would -- that of course is why dealers love us.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Stan]

Another point is that some high end collectors do not like these Japanese AC badges.

I have been offered several over the years but have never been tempted to add one to my collection.

Stan

[BubbaZ]

Another point is that some high end collectors do not like these Japanese AC badges.

Hi Stan,
What are the reasons behind it in your opinion?
Kind regards,
Hubert

[Stan]

Difficult to say. I suppose it could be because I collect German badges made in Germany and view French and Japanese- made badges as variants.

Stan

[Norm F]

Difficult to say. I suppose it could be because I collect German badges made in Germany and view French and Japanese- made badges as variants.

Stan

Makes sense. Likewise, a French wire bullion hand-sewn private-purchase badge appeals to a different audience than an official Kriegsmarine award bestowed in ceremony.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

Well, the silver one on Weitze (attributed to a "Michel" crew member) has been sitting there for a long time unsold at 6000 Euro. If that one ever sells then one could say that it's worth that much (to at least one person) but in the meantime one must assume it's overpriced.

Here's the one that's been on Weitze's site for about a year now with no takers. Same variant as the one from the opening post (silver, without meridian lines) but a unique main pin, different from the other examples we've seen. It appears to have been cleaned and devoid of gilding but on the closeup you can see a bit of residual gilding on the inner margin. Reportedly attributed to Sanitaätsmaat Rudi Puls who served on "Michel" and "Widder". Apparently his name is scratched lightly into the reverse although hard to see on the photos.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

And here's the same variant, this time Mathias' example posted in 2011. The same one was later offered by Militaria-Berlin in 2014 but I don't remember for how much.

[Norm F]

Here's another example of the same variant, previously posted by "collani", reportedly attributed to a "Michel" crew member.

[Norm F]

And another example. The first images on the blue background were posted by "Arsen" in 2010, but the same badge was also offered by Weitze along with an award document dated April 1, 1943.