Small U-boat badge - real or not?

[ReiseReise]

I thought I recall reading that these small U-boat (Biber, etc.) badges were never actually issued:

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/RARE-WWII-193...UAAOxy4fVTD5Yw

I've seen some clearly-fake examples being sold (and yes, selling) for good money, but this one looked better quality than most - except for the terrible stamping on the back, that is. I can't quite follow the seller's explanation, as he seems to be suggesting that these were issued for large sub crews, too? Seems weird to me, but I was hoping the experts could weigh-in!

[Mainemilitaria]

These were never issued, this one appears to be have typical "57" hardware (pin and catch), the markings are horrible (and of "new" production).... so the whole thing is new fake trash. Quality isn't what you'd expect, either IMO.

No one can explain why people continue to buy junk.... especially with the collective knowledge available... but they do.
John G.

[Norm F]

Hi ReiseReise,

As John says, the Kleinkampfverbände clasp was never issued and only one prototype wartime example is known (seen in this thread: http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=797097)

That ebay one is typical S&L production from the mid 1960's (but missing one of the internal cutouts in the right rope wreath). You can see many more in the '57 forum, for example here: http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=786479

The marks on the reverse are bogus (although they're right about the "Lüdenscheid"), and it's not uncommon to find these post-war badges with secondary spurious marks to deceive. It's still worth a small amount to '57 collectors but maybe $50, not $1525!

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

closeups of "maker marks" and the missing cutout.

[Norm F]

The description from the ebay vendor is complete and utter BS:

"Its great WWII German Kriegsmarine Badge. This badge was given to staff of submarine in year 1939. At the beginning WWII in september of 1939 Germany had only 57 submarines. 9 submarines in this same year was lost. For that reason this badge is very rare. Badge is made from metal, probably bronze. Badges length 74 centimeters or 3 inches. On front you can see swordfish. On back badge has a mark on top "1939" and below "L7 RZ" "A+S LUDENSCHEID." Badge is used but in very good condition no damage. Pin back on back is working very well. This badge is part of military history of WWII.

"Firmenlist" from the German Govt that lists all manufacturers who made medals and badges during WW2 and their maker marks. Badge is marked Juncker-Ludensheid L7. The list says L7 belongs to Paul Meybauer, Berlin, SW68 Junkerstrasse 19.

ATTENTION IMPORTANT INFORMATION

In the beginning of WWII September 17th for German Submarine. The great success achieved 17 September 1939 U-Boat 29 (Captain Shuhard), attack aircraft carrier "Koreydzhes." For the loss of the British Admiralty ship of this class and 500-person team was a big hit. At night on October 14th Submarine U-47, Captain Gunther Prien on England base Scapa Flow had attacked two ships one of which is Royal Oak had been sunk with 833 crew members. For this mission all team members were awarded metal crosses. As a result of these successful missions Operations of Germany had decided to issue a special KRIEGSMARINE BADGE for SPECIAL TEAMS OF SUBMARINE. For production of this badge in year 1939 there was very little time left only November and December. Because in November there was produced a small experimental batch of badges. That were awarded first successful submarine teams.

Dear collectors therefore it is not surprising respectfully that this small batch of these badges did not get into any catalog. Therefore the the price of this badge because it is very rare."

[Ludwig]

Just another attempt to fraude...

[Martin W]

The description from the ebay vendor is complete and utter BS:

"Its great WWII German Kriegsmarine Badge. This badge was given to staff of submarine in year 1939. At the beginning WWII in september of 1939 Germany had only 57 submarines. 9 submarines in this same year was lost. For that reason this badge is very rare. Badge is made from metal, probably bronze. Badges length 74 centimeters or 3 inches. On front you can see swordfish. On back badge has a mark on top "1939" and below "L7 RZ" "A+S LUDENSCHEID." Badge is used but in very good condition no damage. Pin back on back is working very well. This badge is part of military history of WWII.

"Firmenlist" from the German Govt that lists all manufacturers who made medals and badges during WW2 and their maker marks. Badge is marked Juncker-Ludensheid L7. The list says L7 belongs to Paul Meybauer, Berlin, SW68 Junkerstrasse 19.

ATTENTION IMPORTANT INFORMATION

In the beginning of WWII September 17th for German Submarine. The great success achieved 17 September 1939 U-Boat 29 (Captain Shuhard), attack aircraft carrier "Koreydzhes." For the loss of the British Admiralty ship of this class and 500-person team was a big hit. At night on October 14th Submarine U-47, Captain Gunther Prien on England base Scapa Flow had attacked two ships one of which is Royal Oak had been sunk with 833 crew members. For this mission all team members were awarded metal crosses. As a result of these successful missions Operations of Germany had decided to issue a special KRIEGSMARINE BADGE for SPECIAL TEAMS OF SUBMARINE. For production of this badge in year 1939 there was very little time left only November and December. Because in November there was produced a small experimental batch of badges. That were awarded first successful submarine teams.

Dear collectors therefore it is not surprising respectfully that this small batch of these badges did not get into any catalog. Therefore the the price of this badge because it is very rare."

I agree with your comment Norm,what an utter load of bollocks..

Sorry,no other words come to mind right now.

Regards,Martin.

[Gary B]

I wrote the seller...we will see what he replies....

Gary B

[Giel VW]

Wow, the super rare 1939 RZM Ausführung... so tempted

[Gary B]

He responded....."Please leave me alone"

Gary B

[BubbaZ]

Obvious fake The story behind it is very funny, haha
Cheers,
Hubert

[ReiseReise]

He responded....."Please leave me alone"

Gary B

LOL! He either knows he's been caught or thinks you're just a "hater".

Thanks for confirming my suspicions.