Kanal Flottille

[rhudspith]

This looks like badge No2 in my original post which seems to lack the sharpness and detail of the others. Also check out the shape of the outline of the UK, in particular the south west.

[Norm F]

This looks like badge No2 in my original post which seems to lack the sharpness and detail of the others. Also check out the shape of the outline of the UK, in particular the south west.

They do indeed look the same, only Michel's has a different type of pin and lacks the round mounting plate (if I've matched the correct reverse image to the obverse).

(I'm sure you guys could take better photos! Michel's are low resolution and Rob's look like the original vendor's photos with the company name brushed out... )

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

So that's three different types of Kanalflottille badge we've seen in this thread so far:

Type 1: wide borders, sharp detail, unmarked, white pin and plate, "personalized" examples (2 examples posted so far)
Type 2: narrower borders, reproducible flaws in the border and lighthouse, sometimes painted, sometimes marked "Deschler" (7 examples posted - 6 marked, one unmarked)
Type 3: wide borders, poor detail, unmarked; with or without the round plate (3 examples posted so far)

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

Here's the one unmarked "Type 2" example from the other thread, previously posted by Martin W.
You can see the same flaws in the border and lighthouse as the "Deschler" marked examples.

Best regards,
---Norm

[rhudspith]

(I'm sure you guys could take better photos! Michel's are low resolution and Rob's look like the original vendor's photos with the company name brushed out... )

Best regards,
---Norm[/QUOTE]

You are right

Better photo of the front of the weitze badge

[Norm F]

Better photo of the front of the weitze badge

Hi Rob,

So you got the Weitze example too. Very nice. Now that you have one of each type, would it be possible to see a side by side comparison of all three of your badges in the same lighting, both obverse and reverse? It would good to compare the base metal.

Best regards,
---Norm

[rhudspith]

Hi Norm,

Sorry, don't have the other two, they were only reference pics I pulled off the internet a few yeas ago

[Norm F]

Hi Norm,

Sorry, don't have the other two, they were only reference pics I pulled off the internet a few yeas ago

Oh well, at least you ended up with the nicest looking of the lot.

Best regards,
---Norm

[rhudspith]

I think so, I guess time will tell!

[Norm F]

Here's another example of the "Deschler" marked variant (Type 2) which shows pitting over both surfaces and even some defects in relief on the reverse. This one was offered on an auction site with the "Buy now" price of 175 Euro.

I don't think there can be any doubt that this type is cast production, not die struck.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

Closeup. There's always a defect in the top of the "S" and the "R" in "DESCHLER" on these somewhat suspicious "Type 2" badges.

[Norm F]

Does anyone know any more substantial history regarding the "Kanalflottille" or Channel Flotilla? From Martyn1's previous thread we know the 4. Räumbootsflottille was involved but also there's a 1990 book by Lothar Frädrich called "Die Kanalflottille: die 15. Vorpostenflottille in der Ostsee, der Nordsee und im Kanal" so that unit must also have worn the badge.

Both the 4. Räumbootsflottille and the 15. Vorpostenflottille were part of the 2. Sicherungsdivision:

"Formed in Souverain Moulin near Boulogne February 1941 after the re-organisation of the Command structure in the coastal area of the West. It was formed from the Staff of the 2. Führer der Minensuchboote Nordfrankreich. The Divisions area of command reached from the English Channel to the Schelde Estuary and subordinate to the B.S.W.. It was dissolved, along with the B.S.W. in September 1944.

Subordinate Units & Vessels

36. Minensuchflottille
38. Minensuchflottille
2. Räumbootsflottille
4. Räumbootsflottille
8. Räumbootsflottille
10. Räumbootsflottille
14. Räumbootsflottille
2. Artillerieträgerflottille
6. Artillerieträgerflottille
15. Vorpostenflottille
18. Vorpostenflottille"

So I wonder who specifically within this division would wear the Kanalflottille tradition badge? We know the 38. Minensuchflottille had a different tradition badge seen in the other thread, so presumably they weren't part of the Kanalflottille.

Best regards,
---Norm

[compressore]

To my knowledge, this badge is attributed to the 4. Räumbootsflottille only.
Units belonged to it listed here:
http://www.wlb-stuttgart.de/seekrieg...ote/rfl1-7.htm

The 15th Vorpostenflotille had their own coat of arms as well as many of the above listed units.
My tendency is that only the 4th Rauembootsflotille had this badge ("Kanalflotille" is the singular form, if the badge were to worn by more units is should read "Kanalflotillen")

Regards
Christian

[Norm F]

Hi Christian,

That makes sense but then I wonder what is said in the 1990 book by Lothar Frädrich called "Die Kanalflottille: die 15. Vorpostenflottille in der Ostsee, der Nordsee und im Kanal" ?

Maybe he was just using "Kanalflottille" in general terms to describe service in the English Channel without implying a specific nickname for the 15. Vorpostenflottille?

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

Also, the quest continues for any evidence that the "Deschler" marked pin plates could be period, although the poorer detail on some of those and the recurring pattern of pits in the lighthouse are discouraging. Of course, another possibility is for some to have been made for a post-war reunion.

Even if the more common, cast, flawed and sometimes variously painted "Deschler" marked badges are post-war (not yet definitively proven), that doesn't necessarily mean they couldn't have still been made by Deschler. We know that Deschler continued on in the awards business and made '57 awards, advertising their trade in publications, so they could easily have been commissioned to produce replacement Kanalflottille badges for 4. Räumbootsflottille reunions. (Just another speculation.)

My Dad attended several reunions of the 3. Räumbootsflottille and had from there a souvenir plaque with the Elk head emblem, so one might expect some similar gestures from other Räumbootsflottillen.

Best regards,
---Norm