Kanal Flottille

[Norm F]

The comparisons of the obverses are somewhat limited by the poor quality of the images, but I think a pattern is emerging.

The top two are the photo album example and the Weitze example, both of which have the unmarked white metal pin plates and personalized initials scratched into the reverse. The bottom four are ones with the "Deschler" marked pin plates.

On the "Deschler" pieces:

1) There is a reproduced pattern of what appear to be casting pits in the lighthouse.
2) The raised lower borders are narrower and squeezed further in the centre circled areas.
3) As well there is often a small irregular linear flaw in the border on the right.

These features strike me as suspicious. Unfortunately we don't yet have more of the top unflawed examples for comparison (perhaps because they're rarer?)

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

One final observation for now -- to me the chemically cleaned "Deschler" example from ratisbon's looks too light to be Tombak, i.e. it appears to be a lower copper-content brass. This is quite subjective of course.

Best regards,
---Norm

[compressore]

Do we draw the conclusion that both the badge from the photoalbum as well as the item from Weitze are period ones ?

Regards
Christian

[Norm F]

Do we draw the conclusion that both the badge from the photoalbum as well as the item from Weitze are period ones ?

Hi Christian,

That's the implication so far based upon the lack of flaws, the mild provenance of sorts to the one with the photo album, and the general colour and quality. But really we need more evidence to be sure.

Also, the quest continues for any evidence that the "Deschler" marked pin plates could be period, although the poorer detail on some of those and the recurring pattern of pits in the lighthouse are discouraging. Of course, another possibility is for some to have been made for a post-war reunion.

Best regards,
---Norm

[compressore]

Thank you for your answer, Norm.
It is a very interesting thread and I hope that more "evidence" can be found.

Regards
Christian

[Norm F]

Although nothing is sacred in this hobby, I'm very encouraged by the prospects of this badge being wartime in terms of wear and the personalization with initials and what might be a Stammrollennummer on the reverse. Not much point to scratching in those numbers on a post-war reunion piece.

Best regards,
---Norm

[rhudspith]

Agree, interesting to see the number scratched on as well, did not spot that.

Of the two badges I posted, Badge 2 seems to be of a totally different obverse than all others posted and looks to lack a little in detail.

On comparison between the other two badges the Deschler one also seems to have an inconsistent thickness/width of border all around the badge although both seem to originate from the same design/die. Perhaps the Deschler ones are of a later production.

On balance I think I prefer the type as shown with the photo album. Looking through the internet the Deschler type seems to be the more common of the two

[Michel]

Two up are "Deumer".
Two down came in two groups, one was split and one in my collection.

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[Michel]

Front side.

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[Norm F]

Hi Michel,

Thanks for posting. When you say "Deumer" I assume you mean "Deschler". Those top two look consistent with the other dubious "Deschler" examples posted, both unpainted and painted, and if you show closeups, I'd wager you would see the same tiny pits in the lighthouse.

Your two unmarked examples show a darker base metal which is a better match to the other two unmarked examples posted so far, but lack the mounting plate for the pins. It would be great to see closeups of those two for comparison, especially if they came with provenance.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Michel]

Sorry the maker is Deschler of course.

I will do pictures soon.

Michel

Hi Michel,

Thanks for posting. When you say "Deumer" I assume you mean "Deschler". Those top two look consistent with the other dubious "Deschler" examples posted, both unpainted and painted, and if you show closeups, I'd wager you would see the same tiny pits in the lighthouse.

Your two unmarked examples show a darker base metal which is a better match to the other two unmarked examples posted so far, but lack the mounting plate for the pins. It would be great to see closeups of those two for comparison, especially if they came with provenance.

Best regards,
---Norm

[compressore]

Would be very interesting to know out of what provenance the pins came.
To ask it more clear: Is the provenance such that the conclusion is such that they are pre-45 ?

Regards
Christian

[Michel]

Would be very interesting to know out of what provenance the pins came.
To ask it more clear: Is the provenance such that the conclusion is such that they are pre-45 ?

Regards
Christian

One came in the Hans Geissler's group, 4h Raumboot Flottille and U-440.

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[Norm F]

One came in the Hans Geissler's group, 4h Raumboot Flottille and U-440.

To be clear, Michel is talking about the two unmarked badges in darker base metal not the two lighter ones with the "Deschler" mark.

Bes regards,
---Norm

[Michel]

Kanalflottille emblem.

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