UB Austrian badge in the Third Reich

[amiklic1]

So far, apart of the one on Internet said to be from the grandfather of forum member, this is the only one I am sure it is original.

And, no, it doesn't look like other pieces I see around:

[amiklic1]

And here is another BSW one, which I believe to be a good copy, but I am not sure about it:

[amiklic1]

Another from the net:
http://www.ww1medals.net/WW1%20IMPER...BADGES%201.htm
"courtesy of Bill Tilton, MMCS(SS) USN, Ret."
I don't know if this is the same Bill who posted his collection on GMIC, but it's one of the "BSW" marked pieces.

It is the same guy, and the badge is said to come from his grandfather, who passed it to him when he qualifyed as a submariner.

[ferdinandmax]

this is a copy regard sergio

[ferdinandmax]

the brand is fake, this is the real

Bruder Schneider in Wien

[ferdinandmax]

So far, apart of the one on Internet said to be from the grandfather of forum member, this is the only one I am sure it is original.

And, no, it doesn't look like other pieces I see around:

watch the fake under the mold is the same, it is false sorry regards sergio

[amiklic1]

watch the fake under the mold is the same, it is false sorry regards sergio

No, this one is original, and is found inside Au submarine. It is now in HGM museum in Vienna ;-)

[Norm F]

Quite a mess of examples! It seems we have to contend with a combination of:
1) original WW1 badges - rare
2) post-WW1 copies for veterans, possibly more than one type - also worn during WW2
3) post-WW2 rip-offs - many abound

So what is meant by "real"? Technically, only category 1 is real, but category 2 is probably of interest to collectors as well.

Hard to sort out at present but to be honest nothing posted in this thread so far looks very promising or has any real provenance. Even the one posted by Bill Tilton, given to him by his grandfather in 1979, could have been a later acquisition as described by him:
"I have compared the BSW Hallmark with an Austrian Artillery Qualification Badge I have and there is only a slight difference. I found a reference that stated that the artillery badge was stopped being made in 1913. Also as I understand it, all original Gov. issued pieces were only given out to individuals actually assigned to a boat and were collected when the individual left the boat. All of these badges were supposedly destroyed after the war... It is possible that the piece I received from my grandfather is either the one awarded or possibly one he purchased it himself."

So really we're unsure of that one as well. We need to see more examples with provenance and hopefully some clear period photos in wear.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

No, this one is original, and is found inside Au submarine. It is now in HGM museum in Vienna ;-)

Hi Andjelo,

I believe Sergio (ferdinandmax) wasn't talking about the badge you posted but rather the "BSW" badge in post #9 (which, by the way, is NOT the same badge that Bill identified as coming from his grandfather in his group shot).

But since you mention that one from the HGM museum, was that supposedly found in a WW1 sub or a WW2 sub? It looks like zinc...

Best regards,
---Norm

[amiklic1]

Hi Andjelo,

I believe Sergio (ferdinandmax) wasn't talking about the badge you posted but rather the "BSW" badge in post #9 (which, by the way, is NOT the same badge that Bill identified as coming from his grandfather in his group shot).

But since you mention that one from the HGM museum, was that supposedly found in a WW1 sub or a WW2 sub? It looks like zinc...

Best regards,
---Norm

It was found in WW1 submarine, whose tower in in HGM museum in Vienna.

[Norm F]

It was found in WW1 submarine, whose tower in in HGM museum in Vienna.

Wow, it looks truly awful and not from corrosion. Makes you wonder if there's been a switch or an addition at some point...

[Norm F]

Here's one previously posted by Stijn from the website of the Österreichische Gesellschaft für Ordenskunde (ÖGO) that is described there as a fake for collectors to beware. Looks very much like the one in post #17 but without the BSW mark.

[ferdinandmax]

these are the original stamps, are the hallmarks of Austrian specialties, the little ones are fake stamps

[ferdinandmax]

is this U20 submarine was sunk in Grado, a town near where I live

[amiklic1]

Here's one previously posted by Stijn from the website of the Österreichische Gesellschaft für Ordenskunde (ÖGO) that is described there as a fake for collectors to beware. Looks very much like the one in post #17 but without the BSW mark.

Yes, pretty similar.
These are seen for sale now and there, and the rumors are the guy in Budapest is producing them, and selling as repros.

But they easily find a way to eBay and classifieds said to be originals.