My Destroyer fleet

[BubbaZ]

And the last one but the most interesting - judging from the hardware it looks like zinc unmarked F&B..., but
- it has totally different obverse design than marked L/21 zincers that we knew so far;
- at the first glance the dimensions are also different but I have not measured it yet with calipers;
- the planchet of L/21 marked zincer is twice as thick compared to the unmarked one; and
- the base material of the unmarked one in hands makes impression as if it was made of tombak and not zinc, very similiar feeling as with uncommon tombak Deumer destroyer with zinc-like hardware. Strange...

Anyway, I hope you like it since the condition is just great.
Cheers,
Hubert

[BubbaZ]

I just compared that strange zincer with F&B hardware with my other destroyers and from obverse design it matches tombak P&L! Is it possible that this is the first P&L zinc KM badge that we know? I Wonder what others think of it?
Cheers,
Hubert

[Norm F]

And the last one but the most interesting - judging from the hardware it looks like zinc unmarked F&B..., but
- it has totally different obverse design than marked L/21 zincers that we knew so far;
- at the first glance the dimensions are also different but I have not measured it yet with calipers;
- the planchet of L/21 marked zincer is twice as thick compared to the unmarked one; and
- the base material of the unmarked one in hands makes impression as if it was made of tombak and not zinc, very similiar feeling as with uncommon tombak Deumer destroyer with zinc-like hardware. Strange...

Anyway, I hope you like it since the condition is just great.
Cheers,
Hubert

Hi Hubert,

Great additions to your collection.

You're quite correct that the vertical pin L/21 Destroyers have slightly different cutouts from the horizontal pin L/21 Destroyers -- apparently from two different sister sets of tooling with a slightly different trimming stamp. But they share the same obverse design which is also shared by many other makers including P&L ("Type 6" as discussed in the classification thread). Different die sets have slight differences in the eagle feathering and I presume F&B ordered two sets (possibly from Paul Wissmann).

Your horizontal pin badge looks like a typical F&B zincer to me although I'm not quite sure about the obverse finish. But the main interesting point is that it's unmarked. These are almost always stamped "L/21" in the pin and the only other unmarked example I've seen is the one posted here (Tom Y's example I believe). Now that you've found another unmarked example I'll need to add this variant to the classification table.

I've also attached Lorenzo's marked example of the same type with the same margins.

Best regards,
---Norm

[BubbaZ]

Different trimming stamps Yes, agreed, I was just so excited that I did not take it into consideration. I looked at different eagle, flag pole and guns cut outs which combined with different finish and planchet thickness made me think od another maker
As far as the finish is concerned I would worry more about the gilt on the marked example than about the gilt and silvering on the unmarked one. I am not sure if comparison to Tom's and Lorenzo's examples is correct since those two we gilded on the reverse not silvered as my two badges and actualy lost their finish.
My crapy scanner does not do it a justice but silvering and gilt on the obverse on my unmarked F&B corresponds well with the silvering on the reverse. I'll try to take a pictures with my cel phone in natural light condition so you could see it either.
When I compare that finish with finishes on my F&B Minesweepers then I can see that those badges with silvered reverse maintain their finish better than those with gilded reverse. I enclose my two F&B Minesweepers to illustrate what I mean, type 2.9.4 with gilded reverse and type 2.9.5 with silvered reverse.
Could you take a second look on that?
Cheers,
Hubert

[Norm F]

As far as the finish is concerned I would worry more about the gilt on the marked example than about the gilt and silvering on the unmarked one. I am not sure if comparison to Tom's and Lorenzo's examples is correct since those two we gilded on the reverse not silvered as my two badges and actualy lost their finish.
My crappy scanner does not do it a justice but silvering and gilt on the obverse on my unmarked F&B corresponds well with the silvering on the reverse. I'll try to take a pictures with my cel phone in natural light condition so you could see it either.
When I compare that finish with finishes on my F&B Minesweepers then I can see that those badges with silvered reverse maintain their finish better than those with gilded reverse. I enclose my two F&B Minesweepers to illustrate what I mean, type 2.9.4 with gilded reverse and type 2.9.5 with silvered reverse.
Could you take a second look on that?
Cheers,
Hubert

Hi Hubert,

You may be right. It's hard to judge the finish on F&B zincers since they show up with a bewildering variety of finishes, most of which are acetone soluble to a degree. It's a struggle to know what's original finish and what might be post-war "refreshment". That's why I was happy to exclude variations in finish from the classification systems.

Here are two more Minesweepers. The marked one has the same reverse finish as your unmarked Destroyer while the unmarked one is more like your marked Destroyer.

Best regards,
---Norm

[BubbaZ]

Hi Guys,
Here are my recent additions. Both very rare. First is unmarked tombak FLL destroyer badge, type 4.1.2 in the Classification system.

[BubbaZ]

And here is my second addition - extremely hard to find unmarked tombak Meybauer destroyer badge, type 6.1.1 in the Classification system. Enjoy!
Cheers,
Hubert

[Norm F]

A first-class collection!

Best regards,
—-Norm

[Steve Mezey]

Very Nice

Outstanding collection of Destroyer badges. You are still missing the L/53. I know where you can find one if need be.
Cheers
Steve

[upbeek]

I just looked through!
Great collection

Kind regards Chay

[BubbaZ]

Thanks guys

Steve, I know Hymmen zincer that is listed on your site, but I try to focus on tombak variants as far as Destroyers and U-boats are concerned.
Cheers,
Hubert