U-boat War Badge with Diamonds today!

[Bob Hritz]

...hi Bob, there were only two versions both made of silver gilded ( vermeille) one with small the other with large swastika . Only minor differences in hinge and pin.
Pieter.

Thank you Pieter. The example I saw had the smaller diamond plaquette.

Bob Hritz

[Norm F]

...hi Bob, there were only two versions both made of silver gilded ( vermeille) one with small the other with large swastika . Only minor differences in hinge and pin.
Pieter.

Hi Pieter,

This is a good point to try to clarify. In "Torpedo Los" Gordon Williamson implies, but doesn't actually state, that the first type with the slightly large diamond swastika plaquette is made from a Tombak planchet whereas the the second type with the smaller planchette is struck from a silver planchet. He also speculates that the two types are simply a result of making a second batch when the first had run out. He also states that the tradition was begun by Raeder and then continued by Doenitz.

However, in contrast, Bill Stump's anecdote of his meeting with Doenitz suggests that Raeder only awarded the unique one-of-a-kind diamond U-Boat badge with the diamond studded wreath to Doenitz and that Doenitz was the one who ordered and awarded all of the subsequent Schwerin-made diamond U-Boats, further stating that Doenitz ordered 100 badges in silver.

From what we've seen in all the WAF threads so far on this topic, I think we all can see and accept the features of a standard small-swastika diamond U-Boat produced in silver, but we haven't seen the larger swastika examples posted aside from the page from Gordon's book showing a very strongly gilded example attributed to Georg Lassen and owned by Don Frailey which, like you say, has the same reverse setup as the smaller swastika version.

So do you have definitive knowledge of the base metal (and other characteristics) of the so-called first type with the larger swastika?

Best regards,
---Norm

[Sepp45]

I have another 2 photos of postwar replicas of Dönitz's special badge.

Some people say the original piece is in the collection of a man in London..

[Pieter Verbruggen]

...same die for both types, silver studded swas for both types, both silver gilded badges,...minor differences in pins an hinges occur.
Pieter.

[Pieter Verbruggen]

...the only thing I never could find out which type was first, or were available at the same time.
Pieter.

[Norm F]

...same die for both types, silver studded swas for both types, both silver gilded badges,...minor differences in pins an hinges occur.
Pieter.

Hi Pieter,

Well that would be consistent with the Stump anecdote. But if Bill Stump's figure of 100 badges ordered by Doenitz is correct, then that would mean at least 70 were never awarded. And if a batch of 100 were ordered all at once, there's no good reason to have produced them in two distinct batches resulting in the different sized swastikas? (Just thinking out loud here...)

Best regards,
---Norm

[Sepp45]

Hi Pieter,

Well that would be consistent with the Stump anecdote. But if Bill Stump's figure of 100 badges ordered by Doenitz is correct, then that would mean at least 70 were never awarded. And if a batch of 100 were ordered all at once, there's no good reason to have produced them in two distinct batches resulting in the different sized swastikas? (Just thinking out loud here...)

Best regards,
---Norm

May I add a thought here? Why would Dönitz ordered 100 of these badges? I know the U-boot were being extremely successful in the Atlantic, but.. why so many? Not even Göring asked for that many PO badges with Diamonds.

The website Uboat.net has listed 12 U-boat Commanders decorated with U-boat War Badge with Diamonds (corresponding with wartime evidence).

http://uboat.net/men/decorations/badgebri.htm

[Pieter Verbruggen]

...how many were made is only speculation.
The two versions exist , photo evidence , that's a fact.
Pieter.

[Martin W]

And this comes from Wolfe-Hardin Militaria. The U-boot badge is visible, alongside other important diamond sets.

The most imprtant to me is the Hilfskreuzer award.

There was only one awarded and that was to Kapitan zur See Bernhard Rogge,Commander of the HK Atlantis.

To my knowledge this badge does reside in the collection of Wolfe-Hardin.

Great photo with many impressive awards.

Regards,Martin.

[Norm F]

The most imprtant to me is the Hilfskreuzer award.

There was only one awarded and that was to Kapitan zur See Bernhard Rogge,Commander of the HK Atlantis.

To my knowledge this badge does reside in the collection of Wolfe-Hardin.

Hi Martin,

The one shown by Gordon on page 176 of "The War Badges of the Kriegsmarine" seems to be in the collection of Don Frailey? Or maybe that's just the photo?

Best regards,
---Norm

[Martin W]

You are indeed correct Norm.

I was refering to the example illusrtrated on page 175 in Gordons book and is credited to Wolfe-Hardin.

I didn't turn to the next page.


Regards,Martin.

[Norm F]

I realize we're veering off the topic of the diamond U-Boat badge, but one more interesting point about that diamond Hilfskreuzer with the screw-back fittings attributed to Rogge in Gordon's book and shown in post #42:
Interestingly, the obverse design is not based upon the Schwerin design, nor the Souval design but is in fact based upon the Juncker design. It's a unique design with the ship lower down to accommodate the larger swastika and a foreshortened globe, but it's clear that the wreath, eagle and globe are based upon the Juncker design. This is fascinating since as you know Rogge handed out Juncker Hilfskreuzer badges to his crew, and while Schwerin was the premier U-boat maker it appears Juncker was the premier Auxiliary Cruiser badge maker.
Based on observation alone, it appears that Juncker was the most likely maker of the Rogge Hilfskreuzer.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Sepp45]

Another example.. thoughts on this one?

[Sepp45]

Reverse view.

[Norm F]

Another example.. thoughts on this one?

Hi Sepp45,

This one (from eMedals website) has been discussed many times before. Likely a genuine badge with repaired pin seems to be the general consensus. The search function in the forum will show you past discussions.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...99#post5133299

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...10#post4517110

Best regards,
---Norm