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Coastal artillery badge. Good or fake?.

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    #16
    Thanks for your knowledge about Rudolf Souval of Vienna. I was hoping there would be a way to distinguish post war from genuine RS. Its a shame that RS items never can be traded as "proven right" especially because they produced in a fine quality.

    Just for fun. This image here belong to the first lock posted. A fantasy badge (from the seventies marked "L/58") who was never given during the war. The factory which was to make them were bombed. There may bee a single prototype somewhere in the world

    Regards Martin
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      #17
      Originally posted by Martin DK View Post

      Its a shame that RS items never can be traded as "proven right" especially because they produced in a fine quality.

      Regards Martin
      Hi Martin

      I disagree with your thoughts above. IMO there are many war time RS badges, I and others, have been happy with. I think the "L/58" second marking on your badge has been the area that first raised concerns in this thread, and this marking is not often encountered.

      cheers
      Graeme

      Comment

        #18
        Hi Martin,

        Warschau shield is known post-war joke, as you mentioned. Never issued for Warsaw Uprising, IMO even so called prototypes are fakes.

        IMO double marking (RS, L/58) should always rise a red flag but decision must be made based on detailed badge analysis and not on the fact of double marking exclusively.

        Here is a double marked s-boot which I have posted for opinion some time ago and it got a thumbs down. It has the same catch as in your arty.
        http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=418454

        Cheers,
        Hubert

        Comment

          #19
          Originally posted by Graeme Sandles View Post
          Hi John
          My comment was meant as a general comment with regard to opinions collectors have of Souval. There are a million threads on Souval, where many collectors have jumped on the "post war" aspect, just because they have "heard" Souval was a post war maker.

          There are plenty of Souval badges that were made during the war and these had various recognised setups. There are also plenty of Souval marked badges out there with post war recognised setups.

          The badge which started this thread, has what I believe to be a recognised good setup. I like the finishing and aging to the badge and as such feel it is likely a good one. If this is the case, then the smaller L/58 mark may also have been added during production. RS Coastal badges are quite hard to find, and IMO, less likely to have been used as a master for fakers.

          I may have missed info on Martins comment that "double marked" awards are considered by many to be post war...It would be very good to clarify this and post the evidence in this thread for reference, providing there is good proof for it.

          Your comment about avoiding "double marked" badges from any maker, can you explain that. As far as I am aware there are good examples of badges that are double marked, L/52 & 20, L55 &100 to name a couple.

          regards
          Graeme
          Yes, I agree with this. Which double marked KM badges are you referring to? Maybe there are.

          John

          Comment

            #20
            Originally posted by John Robinson View Post
            Yes, I agree with this. Which double marked KM badges are you referring to? Maybe there are.

            John
            Hi John



            I think you are aware I am talking of the odd wound, the odd iron cross, Assmann Luft spring to mind, why not L/58 KM

            cheers
            Graeme

            Comment

              #21
              Originally posted by Graeme Sandles View Post
              Hi John



              I think you are aware I am talking of the odd wound, the odd iron cross, Assmann Luft spring to mind, why not L/58 KM

              cheers
              Graeme
              I agree it is a possibility of course. The catch in this case is also in its favor as Norm had pointed out.

              As you stated, we could go on for a book about RS badges.

              John

              Comment

                #22
                I am going to start a thread at GCA and hopefully we can get a discussion going.

                If Gordon does not comment, I will post a thread at GMIC also.

                Grame, if you have any images of these other badges with the double mark here I think it would very much add to the discussion.

                John

                Comment

                  #23
                  Hi John

                  IMO, It would be best for you to post a link to this thread over there, that way all the info is discussed in one place....here

                  regards
                  Graeme

                  Comment

                    #24
                    Here are some interesting viewpoints on Souval double markings (posts 21,22,25):
                    http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ight=rs+l%2F58
                    Cheers,
                    Hubert

                    Comment

                      #25
                      Originally posted by Graeme Sandles View Post
                      Hi John

                      IMO, It would be best for you to post a link to this thread over there, that way all the info is discussed in one place....here

                      regards
                      Graeme
                      Good idea and done. John

                      Comment

                        #26
                        Originally posted by BubbaZ View Post
                        Here are some interesting viewpoints on Souval double markings (posts 21,22,25):
                        http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ight=rs+l%2F58
                        Cheers,
                        Hubert
                        Thanks Hubert, forgot about that thread. There are KM double strikes to examine now. John

                        Comment

                          #27
                          GCA thread:

                          http://www.germancombatawards.com/th...threadid=25650

                          Comment

                            #28
                            Have to say I would still be happy with the on shown, reverse set up looks period as does the MM, there is no solid proof either way about the double strike mm. All the best

                            Comment

                              #29
                              It is my recollection that the information that the L/58 was only used post war came from the old man himself when Souval had a table at one of the larger shows in the U.S. (OMSA or OVMS?) back in the 60's and it was done specifically so that people would know what was war time and not war time so that he could never be accused of selling fake items as many of his early post war higher awards were extremely well made. Maybe some of the other "silver backs" on he forum can verify that. Unfortunately, like so many things early on in this hobby, all the communication was verbal and not in writing.
                              As an interesting aside it is notable that on the higher end awards the L/58 was not stamped on the main body of the award but on the pin where it could be polished down and replated and remarked which has certainly been done by some less than honest folks. So on some Arts and Science awards, "Death Order" awards, Eagle Order stars, Stars to the GC of EK, Red Cross and Social Welfare awards if you rub your finger along the pin you can often feel a little depression where the old marking was and see it in profile unless the entire pin was thinned out.
                              Mike

                              Comment

                                #30
                                Originally posted by Mike Coleman View Post
                                It is my recollection that the information that the L/58 was only used post war came from the old man himself when Souval had a table at one of the larger shows in the U.S. (OMSA or OVMS?) back in the 60's and it was done specifically so that people would know what was war time and not war time so that he could never be accused of selling fake items as many of his early post war higher awards were extremely well made. Maybe some of the other "silver backs" on he forum can verify that. Unfortunately, like so many things early on in this hobby, all the communication was verbal and not in writing.
                                Mike
                                What he said was that they had found the wartime stamp and were using it postwar--so the stamp itself is probably not indicative of anything conclusive.

                                As an interesting aside it is notable that on the higher end awards the L/58 was not stamped on the main body of the award but on the pin where it could be polished down and replated and remarked which has certainly been done by some less than honest folks. So on some Arts and Science awards, "Death Order" awards, Eagle Order stars, Stars to the GC of EK, Red Cross and Social Welfare awards if you rub your finger along the pin you can often feel a little depression where the old marking was and see it in profile unless the entire pin was thinned out.
                                Do you mean postwar items Mike?

                                John

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