Coastal artillery badge. Good or fake?.

[Martin DK]

Hi all

is there anyone who can tell me whether it is genuine if it is what it is worth.
hinge and split is intact. thank you in advance.

Regards Martin

[mrg]

Hi Martin looks Ok to me

[Patrick W]

agreed thats a good one, if you have a fake badge you could take a pin off then you could restore it nicely

[Martin W]

It appears to be "double marked"?

Could you provide a close of the other maker mark?

These "double marked" awards are usually considered by many to be of post war production by Souval.

Regards,Martin.

[John R.]

I would avoid a double marked badge from any maker--doubly so (no pun intended) with an RS. Like to see a much more detailed image of the stamped mark though. It does show L/58 though.

John

[John R.]

We somewhat saw a similar one--the original owner declined to post better images.

Again, no clear shots of the stamped mark.

John

[Graeme]

Hi Martin

I think the badge looks good also.

And as such, the maker marks might be fine also..

With Souval, you get a lot of hearsay and incorrect assumptions surrounding their badge production.


regards
Graeme

[John R.]

Hi Martin

I think the badge looks good also.

And as such, the maker marks might be fine also..

With Souval, you get a lot of hearsay and incorrect assumptions surrounding their badge production.


regards
Graeme

Graeme,

Could you let us know what you would consider correct assumptions and also rectify those areas you state as hearsay which are contraindicated by fact for the badges made by Souval?

Just trying to clarify what you are saying in your post.

I want to research this badge a bit so am not making a black and white judgement call on it nor can I. However, if the original poster can add additional shots, I will take it up on GMIC and GCA for further discussion.

John

[Graeme]

Graeme,

Could you let us know what you would consider correct assumptions and also rectify those areas you state as hearsay which are contraindicated by fact for the badges made by Souval?

Just trying to clarify what you are saying in your post.

John

Hi John
My comment was meant as a general comment with regard to opinions collectors have of Souval. There are a million threads on Souval, where many collectors have jumped on the "post war" aspect, just because they have "heard" Souval was a post war maker.

There are plenty of Souval badges that were made during the war and these had various recognised setups. There are also plenty of Souval marked badges out there with post war recognised setups.

The badge which started this thread, has what I believe to be a recognised good setup. I like the finishing and aging to the badge and as such feel it is likely a good one. If this is the case, then the smaller L/58 mark may also have been added during production. RS Coastal badges are quite hard to find, and IMO, less likely to have been used as a master for fakers.

I may have missed info on Martins comment that "double marked" awards are considered by many to be post war...It would be very good to clarify this and post the evidence in this thread for reference, providing there is good proof for it.

Your comment about avoiding "double marked" badges from any maker, can you explain that. As far as I am aware there are good examples of badges that are double marked, L/52 & 20, L55 &100 to name a couple.

regards
Graeme

[Martin DK]

More pictures.

[Martin DK]

more pictures

Thanks for your interest. Hope we end up with a clear answer concerning the authenticity.

Regards Martin

[Martin DK]

Its difficult to compare my badge with the picture posted by John Robinson, but I see some smal differences on the front. On the back the lock is similar to what I would call for a "Rudolf Souval post war lock" Allow me here to make a few examples. This type was never used during the war, according to the book "Detecting the Fakes by Robin Lumsden"

Regards Martin

[Norm F]

Its difficult to compare my badge with the picture posted by John Robinson, but I see some smal differences on the front. On the back the lock is similar to what I would call for a "Rudolf Souval post war lock" Allow me here to make a few examples. This type was never used during the war, according to the book "Detecting the Fakes by Robin Lumsden"

Regards Martin

Hi Martin,

Although the catches you posted with the hook sliced out of the integrated catch plate are traditionally accepted as post-war, that doesn't mean categorically that all the other types were de facto wartime.

The one John posted is a traditional flat wire catch different from the ones you posted, and both this and the round wire catch were used by Souval during wartime.

The problem is since Souval is known to have continued production post-war, there will always be an element of uncertainty and it becomes somewhat subjective when trying to tell them apart. Also, does it matter much to all collectors whether they have an unissued badge from 1944 versus a virtually identical badge made by Souval on the same tooling in say 1948? It's kind of a slippery slope...

Best regards,
---Norm

[Graeme]

Hi Martin

You are correct about the last catch you posted ....post war for sure....

Any comparison with the blurry pics posted, are not worth the effort.

Your new pics show fantastic detail imo. I also like the hinge and catch set up. It is normal for the hinge to be straddled over the "undersized" hinge guide. And the marking made from the pin spring tension, just below the hinge is where I would expect it to be.

regards
Graeme

[Graeme]

Hi Martin,


The problem is since Souval is known to have continued production post-war, there will always be an element of uncertainty and it becomes somewhat subjective when trying to tell them apart. Also, does it matter much to all collectors whether they have an unissued badge from 1944 versus a virtually identical badge made by Souval on the same tooling in say 1948? It's kind of a slippery slope...

Best regards,
---Norm

Norm describes this situation very well. This is known to have occurred with other manufacturers also. For those that did carry on manufacture, there was possibly a period of time when parts made in the war were assembled after the war.....having a finished product the same as war manufactured..But with your badge, as it stands, imo, there is nothing that lends us to believe it was made post war.

regards
Graeme