Unmarked minesweeper

[franco1472]

Hi Guys i would like your thoughts on this unmarked minesweeper any idea of the maker and most important is it original

Thanks Frank

[Norm F]

Hi Frank,

There are a lot of these floating around, but that one has yet another variant setup. It's a zinc S&L like discussed in this thread.

I'd like to see closeup side views of the attachment of the hinge if possible though.

Best regards,
---Norm

[John R.]

Original with some sort of chemical reaction perhaps going on around the hinge and top left of the badge as viewed from the reverse. Overall not in bad condition. John

[Adrian]

A nice original badge in very good condition for a zincer.

Norm, am I right in thinking there was another pin setup from S&L? A straight wide pin? Forgive the question if it's a simple one, I'm just starting out learning these badges.

[Norm F]

A nice original badge in very good condition for a zincer.

Norm, am I right in thinking there was another pin setup from S&L? A straight wide pin? Forgive the question if it's a simple one, I'm just starting out learning these badges.

Hi Adrian,

For the S&L zinc minesweepers I've seen 3 setups - the one shown by Frank at the top of this thread and the two shown in the other thread (needle-pin/oval hinge and the broad inverse taper pin). These same 3 setups along with some other variations are used in the S&L zinc Hilfskreuzer badges as well (Martin W. has all these variations), and you see similar variations on this theme in the zinc HSF badges and the zinc 1st pattern S-boats. These are all late war zincers, and there's some concern that some may even be post-war assembly in Ludenscheid from leftover parts for the souvenir market but hard to say, and there's no doubt that many are wartime manufacture.

The high quality tombak versions, in contrast, generally use only one pin setup and that's the straight wide pin you mentioned. It can be seen here.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

For those who followed the recent U-boat thread on GCA or saw this thread here at WAF, it may be worthwile mentioning that the setup seen on Frank's zinc minesweeper in this thread is the same setup as is seen on the W&L zinc U-boats and also on what we now believe to be S&L zinc U-boats of the same design.

It appears there was some as yet undetermined relationship between W&L (Mittweida) and S&L (Lüdenscheid), such that it's possible one was supplied by the other with production dies or badges. Some believe W&L may have supplied S&L, while others (myself) suggest S&L supplied W&L, but really it's simply not known at this time.

At any rate, the setup on this clearly S&L minesweeper is the same as seen on W&L U-boats and also on their Ostfolk badges. It's an interesting observation to tuck away, although no definitive conclusion can be drawn at this time.

Cheers.
---Norm

[Adrian]

Hi Adrian,

For the S&L zinc minesweepers I've seen 3 setups - the one shown by Frank at the top of this thread and the two shown in the other thread (needle-pin/oval hinge and the broad inverse taper pin). These same 3 setups along with some other variations are used in the S&L zinc Hilfskreuzer badges as well (Martin W. has all these variations), and you see similar variations on this theme in the zinc HSF badges and the zinc 1st pattern S-boats. These are all late war zincers, and there's some concern that some may even be post-war assembly in Ludenscheid from leftover parts for the souvenir market but hard to say, and there's no doubt that many are wartime manufacture.

The high quality tombak versions, in contrast, generally use only one pin setup and that's the straight wide pin you mentioned. It can be seen here.

Best regards,
---Norm

Thank you for the clarification Norm.

[franco1472]

Cheers guys thanks for all your replies what would be a fair price for a zincer in this condition

Cheers Frank

[Norm F]

Cheers guys thanks for all your replies what would be a fair price for a zincer in this condition

Cheers Frank

Hi Frank,

You'll get various answers, but the minesweepers in general are the most common and least valuable of the KM combat badges. Within that, zinc ones are less valuable and generally unmarked zinc are the least. Finally, the S&L and the Deumer unmarked zinc minesweepers are pretty common, although your particular example has perhaps a slightly increased value to a minesweeper geek because of its variant hardware.

That said, an expensive dealer like Kai Winkler or Helmut Weitze charges about 115-135 Euro for these badges ($150-$175), but they don't sell all that well and tend to just sit there at those prices since demand is low. For collectors wanting to move a badge I'd say $100 will likely get it sold, depending on the target audience.

Best regards,
---Norm

[franco1472]

Thanks for the extra info Norm


Frank