mini Minesweeper stickpin

[Norm F]

Reverse

And now on the reverse.
Again, the margins are smoother, less complex on the mini but look at the match in the base metal and in the eagle's shoulders, and even in the contours of the outer margin of the wreath.

Pending any evidence from future postings of minis, so far I'm prepared to say it's likely Andy's (and Mark's and Erik's) 16 mm stickpins are the S&L-made minis represented in the 1940 Steinhauer and Lück catalogue.

Any thoughts?

Best regards,
---Norm

(Mark's 16 mm on the left, and Gordon's full-size S&L on the right)

[jon doe]

Hi guys,

here´s my L/21 16mm minesweeper mini for comparison:

[jon doe]

.

[Norm F]

Very nice Danny. Thanks for posting this L/21.
It's a nice match to the L/21 in post #33 but with an interesting flaw under the eagle's left wing where it meets the wreath. It's also nice to see the style of the pin twist for this type.
So now we've seen 2 Foerster&Barth, 3 S&L-like and 2 Schickle-like, but I have yet to see another "Deumer-like" similar to mine which started the thread...

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

Pending any evidence from future postings of minis, so far I'm prepared to say it's likely Andy's (and Mark's and Erik's) 16 mm stickpins are the S&L-made minis represented in the 1940 Steinhauer and Lück catalogue.

Another potential link to S&L. I wouldn't say the type of pin twist was necessarily unique to a particular maker, but at least this marked S&L double mini shows that S&L definitely at times used the same kind of widely spaced pin twist as we see on the unmarked 16 mm minesweeper.

[Peter J.]

Hi Norm,

I believe that's a fair assumption, as I've seen this type of widely spaced twists on the pins from other producers, mostly on pre-WW2 minis like the one shown by you.

cheers
peter

[Norm F]

I just got this 9 mm minesweeper in from Weitze. Hard to photograph given its extremely tiny size. I was a little concerned about the color and waviness of the reverse. The obverse however has excellent detail and the edge views show nice shear marks, so the pin seems genuine to me in my limited mini experience.

I noticed that Andy's 16 mm posted earlier in this thread also had some waviness to the reverse, and I wondered if the high heat of the soldering iron could cause some distortion to the neighbouring base metal when working on such a tiny project as this?

The knurling on this pin is a bit chewed up unfortunately by one of those metal weighted sheaths that had been slid onto it, which I removed upon receipt.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

Contrary to the impression given by the previous photos, this thing is really small...

[Norm F]

...I noticed that Andy's 16 mm posted earlier in this thread also had some waviness to the reverse, and I wondered if the high heat of the soldering iron could cause some distortion to the neighbouring base metal when working on such a tiny project as this?
...

After doing some reading, it seems for brass alloys it's likely that the joining technique used here was "silver brazing" rather than soldering. This technique would use a copper/silver alloy rod at temperatures greater than 600 C rather than regular lead/tin solder at temperatures less than 450 C, and makes a neater stronger join. Although the melting point of brass alloys is over 900 C and it should be possible to braze without distorting the brass base metal, I'm thinking that due to the small size and high heat conductivity of the miniature and depending on the worker's technique, the temperature got too high causing the warping of the surface.

[Peter J.]

Norm, thanks for some excellent info regarding the technique No matter what the reason for the inconsistency of the reverse, I believe your 9mm is beyond all suspicion in regards of originality and I for sure wouldn't mind adding it to my collection. As I can't post images, I'll drop you an e-mail with a shot of a 9mm you can use here for comparison.

cheers
Peter

[Andy B.]

Norm,
I checked my mine and the ripple or waviness seems to have been a metal defect before the pin was stamped. The ripple stops abruptly at the cut out by the wreath. I also note that the ripple does not continue onto the plume.
Andy

[Norm F]

Here's Peter's great example of a zinc 9mm mini.
He reports that it has "a non-flattened horse-shoe pin".

[Norm F]

Comparing the 9 mm minis to full-sized badges is much more problematic than comparing 16 mm minis, since the tiny size seems to require more compromises in design so that similarities are harder to find. One can still see, however, the typical 8-wave pattern that is used by several makers of full-size badges but NOT by Schwerin, Deumer, Assmann, FLL or RSS and so rules out those companies.

Having said that, it may be still useful to compare the 9 mm minis to their 16 mm big brothers.

What this reveals is that the eagle on Peter's 9 mm zinc mini is very similar to the eagle on the L/21 marked zinc mini by Förster & Barth. The knurling on their pins is different, but the eagle design is compelling I think. This eagle is quite different from both the "S&L-type" 16 mm and the "Schickle-type" 16 mm. (Schickle is ruled out anyway since he went out of business in 1941 before the advent of zinc production). So Peter's 9 mm mini may be by Förster & Barth.

[Norm F]

Now, going back to my 9 mm Buntmetall (tombak) mini, here's a comparison of its eagle to the two types of 16 mm tombak minis shown earlier, i.e. the "S&L-type" and the "Schickle-type". (There's no need to compare to the "Deumer-like" mini since they have different wave patterns.)

I'd say the 9 mm is a better match to the "S&L-type" than the "Schickle-type" 16 mm. Once again, though, the knurling of the pins don't match, and of course it could still be by some other maker of minis not yet identified.

[amiklic1]

Here are few shots of my 16mm Minesweeper: