Hymmen U Boat badge study

[Norm F]

... you must have the postcard, or I do, or somebody does!!!!

John

That is indeed your postcard! You scanned it and sent it to me for volume 3 of The Kriegsmarine Awards.

[Norm F]

I thought I had an image of Gordon's L/53 marked mini. I do not and it was deleted by Gordon years ago. Do you have an image of one?

John

Here we go.

[John R.]

That is indeed your postcard! You scanned it and sent it to me for volume 3 of The Kriegsmarine Awards.

Looked familiar.

[John R.]

That mini is great. Wonder who owns it?

Looks exactly like the full size badge. John

[Norm F]

That mini is great. Wonder who owns it?

Looks exactly like the full size badge. John

Owned and posted by Greg in 2014 here:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=769485

Best regards,
—-Norm

[John R.]

I agree, very nice tombak Hymmen
Here is mine with same hardware:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...7&postcount=48
Cheers,
Hubert

Note that Hubert's example still has gilding!!!! Amazing. Mine does not.

John

[Jeff V]

Great thread guys!

[John R.]

Norm contacted me and stated that the badge of Tim's in post 10 indicates that it is a Hymmen, not a Deumer as I stated.

The reason I thought/think it was a Deumer was what appears to me to be a clear separation between the keel and the rudder, see below. However, all the other indicators do point to a Hymmen.

What do you think?

As I said, the Hymmen-Deumer distinction has always been tricky in hand (as opposed to viewing the badge on your computer screen) and photos can be tricky also.

John

[Norm F]

Norm contacted me and stated that the badge of Tim's in post 10 indicates that it is a Hymmen, not a Deumer as I stated.

The reason I thought/think it was a Deumer was what appears to me to be a clear separation between the keel and the rudder, see below. However, all the other indicators do point to a Hymmen.

What do you think?

As I said, the Hymmen-Deumer distinction has always been tricky in hand (as opposed to viewing the badge on your computer screen) and photos can be tricky also.

John

Hi John,

The vertical line between the keel and rudder actually exists on both the Hymmen and the Deumer badges -- it's simply more distinct on the Deumer so more readily seen on lower resolution photos than on the Hymmen. Tim's professional quality photos with side lighting nicely show the vertical division line on his Hymmen. You can also see it on Greg's wide-pin Hymmen in post #48.

In fact, the vertical line is visible on every Hymmen posted in this thread except for the one wide-pin example posted by Tim B. as a comparator which incidentally happens to be the very same example use by Gordon for his comparisons in Torpedo Los.

Best regards,
---Norm

[John R.]

OK, I see it Norm. Thanks. I will edit my remarks about Tim's badge. John

[John R.]

So Tim, Chay, Hubert and myself all have the same type of Hymmen badge, 3.1.2 in Norm's classification table as is the badge posted by Genoa (same badge as Tim's). The wide pin Huss badge is 3.1.1 in the classification table.

There is also a 3.1.1 in the Kriegsmarine Awards, not sure who owns that badge at this point and the one in Torpedo Los, page 168. I think these are all different badges, but have not studied them in detail yet. Gordon did not have an example of a 3.1.2 badge in his book, only the 3.1.1.

Heck, I am always telling collectors to look at the entire badge and I violated that by fixating on the rudder-keel issue!!!

I faintly remember now why we did not include the rudder-keel issue in the Kriegsmarine Awards while Gordon did have it Torpedo Los.

So where I am with these is that we have three examples of 3.1.1 in books and on WAF and four examples of the 3.1.2.

Fairly uncommon, but the Beco is probably the rarest, not sure.

Thanks Norm. again.

John

[BubbaZ]

Hi John,
Your Hymmen is beautiful
Indeed, my tombak Hymmen is type 3.1.2 and it retained all of its original gilt. Here are better images:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...0&postcount=55
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...8&postcount=54
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...7&postcount=48
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...6&postcount=53
I also own solid tombak Deumer:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...8&postcount=13
and when you have both badges in hand differences are clear and it is obvious that you look on two slightly different obverse designs. IMO easiest way to tell them apart is to look on the eagle, its head and chest. Hymmen eagle has a grimase as if it just ate a frog while Deumer eagle looks quite nobly. Feathers on Hymmen eagle chest look like very sharp eged rhombs while feathers on Deumer eagle chest look more like fish scales.
Cheers,
Hubert

[Norm F]

...when you have both badges in hand differences are clear and it is obvious that you look on two slightly different obverse designs. IMO easiest way to tell them apart is to look on the eagle, its head and chest. Hymmen eagle has a grimace as if it just ate a frog while Deumer eagle looks quite noble. Feathers on Hymmen eagle chest look like very sharp edged rhomboids while feathers on Deumer eagle chest look more like fish scales.
Cheers,
Hubert

For easy reference:

[Norm F]

So Tim, Chay, Hubert and myself all have the same type of Hymmen badge, 3.1.2 in Norm's classification table as is the badge posted by Genoa (same badge as Tim's).

As mentioned, the round-wire pin Hymmen posted by Tim B over several posts starting in post #10 is the same badge posted by genoa41 in post #19 (reverse images attached). I think genoa41’s images were probably from a vendor site prior to Tim acquiring the badge.