Unfinished AS Minesweepers

[Greg]

Very interesting, especially the Wächtler & Lange wound badge; Mittweida is over 200km from the Gablonz area!

The PAB looks like a "planchet" (if that is the right term) for a normal AS in triangle PAB, less scooped back version, including the striations that radiate out on the reverse.

Best,
Greg

[Don D.]

The wound badge offers a puzzling question besides why is it there? The "100" mark is already present. I would have thought it would have been part of the crimping tool for crimping the catch into place. I don't see how you could do that now and not mess up the mark....

ps- can you post size and wieghts?

[pavels_2005]

Don,

I added some more pictures, also the wound badges...
I thought the same that by crimping of the hook the Nr. 100 would be damaged. .... Lets see opinions of others

All the wound badges are same, some of them have perforated needle setup, some of them not.

The weight of the wound badges 18 - 21 g, dependig if perforated or not.

Pavel

[Stepdale]

Pavel,
As usual, the more one finds on Gablonz makers the more questions that come out. You might talk to the curator at the Museum of Glass and Jewelry in Gablonz. She can tell you the correct regional archives (I believe the one in Liberec) to visit that would have business lists and documents. What you are finding is great and I can't wait to visit later this summer to see what else you've found, but I believe it's going to take something in writing from the WW2 period to answer a lot of questions and especially to convince collectors. I'm reasonably sure that AS in a triangle is Adolph Sholze (Schwerdt was too small of a company to produce so many badges), but it will take a document, book or catalog to prove it to the satisfaction of some people.

Very interesting to find the wound badges and the u-boot clasp near the Scholze factory. You're right, it could very well be work done for makers in other areas of Germany. I have no idea how the numbers on the wound badges would not be damaged during crimping, but I suspect the Gablonz makers, who developed techniques in other areas such as a new method of making iron crosses, would have been very capable of finding a way to do it.
Dale

[Hans N]

Like Don said the "100" marked WB´s doesn´t make sense...

[Andreas Klein]

Hi Dale,

on the research for the Wound badge book we were last year in Gablonz and visited the archiv which isn't anymore in Gablonz itself. Many documents but no one with a logo because most of them started with the end of the war or midwar.

Perhaps there are some more documents still there but we had no chance to see them. It seems that many things according to 2nd world war "vanished".

[Don D.]

I wonder if Juncker transfered thier remaining dies to Gablonz after they were bombed out. they were the only maker of the Uboot spange so getting those back in production would have been a priority.

As for records, I'm sure they were gotten rid of after the ethnic cleansing that occured. No sense leaving a paper trail for future claims against the new owners.

Dale, the catch crimp on the wound badge is accomplished by placing a catch with base in the catch hole and then crimping the raised metal around the rim of the hole down, securing the catch in place. Fundimentally, it is the same crimping proceedure found on thepab abd minesweeper badges above. One option is that they were crimped and the catch didn't stay secure so they were thrown in the trash.

[Jeff V]

I wonder if Juncker transfered thier remaining dies to Gablonz after they were bombed out. they were the only maker of the Uboot spange so getting those back in production would have been a priority.

As for records, I'm sure they were gotten rid of after the ethnic cleansing that occured. No sense leaving a paper trail for future claims against the new owners.

Dale, the catch crimp on the wound badge is accomplished by placing a catch with base in the catch hole and then crimping the raised metal around the rim of the hole down, securing the catch in place. Fundimentally, it is the same crimping proceedure found on thepab abd minesweeper badges above. One option is that they were crimped and the catch didn't stay secure so they were thrown in the trash.

Hi Don, Juncker was not the maker of the u-boat clasp it was Schwerin. I have no idea why the 100 marked wound badge would be part of this group but they were marked on the crimp.
best wishes,
jeff

[Don D.]

Thanks Jeff. I was up early and still asleep.

[Jeff V]

Thanks Jeff. I was up early and still asleep.

I hear you Don!
best wishes,
jeff

[John T]

Great thread!

Everything here makes perfect sense if all of the items are indeed original and ground found in the area as stated.

It would indeed seem that a company or companies in the area produced badges for other well known companies as the badges all seem to be produced on the same type of equipment...just being marked to different makers.

I have always believed in having an open mind with regard to badge collecting as even in this day and age new things are coming to life...for example it now appears to be a strong possiblity that Schwerin U-Boat CCC's with the crimped/cast in fittings were made in what is now the Czech Republic... Or, maybe the equipment for making the badges was made in the area and samples were produced there---hence the funny looking sample test strikes-- and then the equipment was sold to badge makers such as Schwerin etc...

John

[Thomas Bendixen]

For sure a fascinating thread, thanks for sharing Pavel

Cheers Thomas

[Don D.]

Was Gablonz ever bombed during the war? If not, perhaps as other German cities were being pulverized manufacturers started moving operations out of the danger zones.

[Stepdale]

Gablonz was never bombed. I have visited the area numerous times and know a few collectors in the area. German military units were still in the area up until the end, though most were trying to flee westward to escape the Russians. Many collectors have found a lot of badges and other militaria in the area as units apparently cast away their insignia either before capture or in preparation for fleeing.

I've found nothing on manufacturing moving there from other parts of the Reich. I do have some paperwork from glass maufacturers there showing they were producing goods for firms in Germany right up to the very end, so I suppose that badge/medal producers could have been doing the same.

Andreas, I also found nothing in Gablonz, but a curator told me any information on businesses had been moved to the regional archives in Liberec (the former Reichenberg). I never got to them but hope to do so later this year or early next year. I agree, it's a long shot but I'll give it a try. I'll also continue to have my collector friends in the area keep their eyes open for any literature they might find. The Gablonz makers are quickly becoming my main area of interest, but between the military and family, I don't get a lot of free time to investigate as much as I want to. But I plan to give it all I can.

[Thomas Durante]

Very interesting thread Pavel, thanks very much for sharing.

Can you post some more shots of the CCC, more straight on shots showing the obverse and reverse. It looks like a Large Font type AGMuK, but the crimps seem to be different and the obverse doesn't look to be a match either, but the angle of the pic may be to blame.

Thanks

Tom