Kriegsmarine Minesweeper's Abzeichen

[entasis]

here's 2 tangentially related threads from the past:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ht=minesweeper

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...er+minesweeper

[John R.]

Plenty of KM war badges had folded hinges. Plenty of post-war fakes have the other types of hinges. You must look at the entire badge and not just a particular piece of hardware. I am not skeptical at all of the folded hinge since so many have them--Forester and Barth, L/56, Hymenn, Hymenn type, Klein and Quenzer, Meybauer--I can go on, and these are just U-boat badges. John

[Peter J.]

John, in order to avoid further confusion we need to discuss the hinge in question, not folded hinges in general. I've shown an image to illustrate and I believe Tom is referring to the same type.

cheers
Peter

[Jeff V]

There is nothing wrong with the Mayer badge belonging to Tim Ball or any other Mayer having a folded hinge. Just because some horible looking Souval fake has a folded hinge does not make these Mayers hinges bad. John is right, start looking at the whole badge. What is next, I find a tubular hinge on some crappy fake and then deduce that all Juncker flight badges with tubular hinges are fake. best wishes,
jeff

[Peter J.]

Are you for real . Try to grasp what I'm saying, I don't question Mayer's MS as such, it's the specific "key-whole" hinge I'm talking about. The fact that these hinges are found in abundance on post-war fakes and the only attributed originals so far in this thread are Mayer's might seem plausible in your book, well it doesn't in mine. Adding other producers who used "folded hinges" to this equation, is a diversion from the question I raised. If inquisitive questions are , what the heck am I doing here.

have a good day
Peter

[Jeff V]

Are you for real . Try to grasp what I'm saying, I don't question Mayer's MS as such, it's the specific "key-whole" hinge I'm talking about. The fact that these hinges are found in abundance on post-war fakes and the only attributed originals so far in this thread are Mayer's might seem plausible in your book, well it doesn't in mine. Adding other producers who used "folded hinges" to this equation, is a diversion from the question I raised. If inquisitive questions are , what the heck am I doing here.

have a good day
Peter

I'm not sure what your point is. These hinges are obviously used on originals as well as fakes. BTW, I have not added any other producers of "folded hinges" to the equation, Juncker used tubular hinges in the example I made. I will not sit by and watch you show us some crappy fakes while you try to throw doubt on original badges.
jeff

[Peter J.]

There are actually more guys than you responding to this thread. With flak coming from all sides, it's difficult to be extremely explicit in my responces. You insist on telling me not to bad-mouth an original badge, which I haven't, assuming you comprehend the English language. You also ask me to see the greater picture, I suggest you try the same. But don't worry, I won't bother you any further with my stupid questions.

over and out
Peter

[John R.]

Peter,

I am not sure we are going to make a lot of progress on this. Let me say that the hinge example you posted does not match the hinge example in Tim's MS. They are not even close. So I am not saying your hinge matches a period Mayer, not at all. The Mayer hinge is not the hinge in your fake glider example in any of their KM products.

You say in one part that you are not arguing the authenticity of Tim's badge but it sounds a bit like you are--at least it is not clear to me what you are saying to be honest from your last post.

I listed a small sample of other KM badges that use folded hinges. You said it was a diversion--well, then please post other examples of period KM badges that have your exact type of folded hinge so we can see what you are talking about.

Upon a quick review of my files, I honestly can't find an authentic KM badge that has your exact hinge, they are slightly different. However, to photograph every single folded hinge used in KM badges with a side angle would be almost impossible.

If you have one or two, that would be interesting. I do not since your hinge I can't replicate in a period badge, so far.

I would say that your example is interesting in that if you encounter a KM badge with that exact hinge, you should look at it very closely. Again, I do not see a match with it for any accepted KM badge at this point.

Do not misunderstand what I am saying--I am not saying your posted hinge is used in a period piece since I have not seen it, but, they might and others here might have an example they could post to help illuminate this discussion a bit or at least help to answer your initial question.

John

[Tim B.]

Hi Peter,

Relax a bit, nobody is attacking anyone here. I think we all tend to get defensive when we think somebody is questioning the authenticity of a piece we may have in our collections, and as this style hinge is probably on several pieces own by several collectors, we just need to separate those pieces from the style and make of the component part for this discussion.

I started out in this thread discussing "catch styles" as mine was clearly different from the one that started the thread, but it progressed to "hinges", and some made that jump slower than others.

I still feel there is nothing wrong with this style hinge and it's probably fairly easy to make so we are bound to see it carried forward to today on reproductions as well as original items. May I ask, what are your concerns with this style of folded hinge exactly?
Tim

[Peter J.]

I hear you Tim, but thanks to John's excellent diplomatical skills it's safe to say: All is quiet on the Western front I've been in contact with both him and Jeff, it was just one of those crappy days.

I gave John an extensive answer as to my inquiry and I'm sure he will mail it to you, should you ask. It will explain my concerns.

cheers
Peter